Match : 27 November 2011 at 20:00

[Megageth]

Some good times on Tehran. Here is some feedback from me.

General
======
Its no good attacking one flag and leaving 2 open. Maps like Seine will require practice and coordination and like Shadey says, the routes between the flags need to be named. There are a fixed number of routes between the flags and we need to own them. Having a squad run around the edge of the map whilst the flags are undefended does not work. We need a defense system first (waiting for armour to block incoming routes/leaving 1 or 2 dedicated defenders) and then we can move.
A successful defence will net you a flag and some extra tickets.

Skoups I disagree with your preference to keeping squads of 4 for squad perks. I think the perks are largely overrated. They help a bit but are nowhere near as important as getting the squad balance right. On maps like Seine with 1 tank, I would use 3 in tank squad, 3 in infantry attack squad and 2 defense squad.

Armour
=====
I mentioned that the Nuts should focus on Armour and I still hold to that. I believe I am one of the stronger grunts in the Nuts but stronger clans eg sG, FiB, Baggers, NSD will pwn me on foot. How do we counter that? Focus on Armour. Practice in armour. We need 3 in a tank and 3 in an APC. We need to roll in quickly on armour and pwn. Driver watches for mines, gunner scans and spots. Driver shoots shadows and rubble to ensure there are no mines en route.

Having merely Ice working with Shadey on the APC was an oversight in my view. She had no gunner/spotter whilst he repaired and the APC was vulnerable if he got shot.

Infantry
======
Regrouping before an attack is not instantaneous and requires patience. That said, grunts were slow moving to their Squad leader's commands last night.
Squad leaders need to use jeeps more and learn the routes between the flags. (And where jeeps spawn).
I am not sure what mini-map settings will be used in the league but Squad leaders should consider using suppressors to remain stealthy, especially if they have Spawn on Squad Leader only enabled.

[Skouperd]

I will start with the positives.
Thank you to everybody for being on the servers 15 minutes before the game that is really great.
Thank you Shadey for helping set up the server.
Thank you all to getting into your squads quickly, without problems nor issues.

Now the sad stuff.

Shadey, I disagree with some of what you said. The team that we have is a good team, but we need a lot more practise together. I have never disagreed that the baggers have individuals that is in a one on one match better than us, but BF3 and winning is not about individual play, it is about team work. Naming places is important, but I think one can easily go overboard as well. Nothing wrong with calling “B-Flag, A-Flag, C-Flag”, but I do have a problem, “up in the building” as that doesn’t tell one anything.

With regard to not knowing all three maps, the thread said we will be playing an infantry only map, both Cronos and me understood that it would have been Metro, I will take it up with Hubris.

Not picking on any single player, but since Shadey indicated that Tyger should be in the baggers team and that Tyger was upset for not making the Baggers, my views, sorry Tyger, you may consider yourself a highly skilled player but sorry dude you did not impress me at all yesterday. Cronos was the SL, Cronos was giving the commands in the first two maps, however, if Cronos said something you always chirped back, or if somebody say let’s go A, you will comment “Yes, that is a good idea let’s go.” Tyger, you need to learn to keep your mouth quiet and listen to what your SL tells you. You had a horrible KD ratio, and the only reason why, was because whenever I looked at the map, you were always away from the rest of your squad.

Tyger, there was a good reason why I’ve made you the SL on the last map. I wanted to see if you could manage a squad. It did go quite well at the last map, we were leading for a long time but unfortunately you were unable to adapt your strategy once the Baggers figured out what you are doing. For instance, when I suggested that your squad start using Soflam to take care of the tank, and you agreed that it is a good idea, not a single command came from you to tell your squad members who need to do what in order to make the Soflam work. Instead, your squad just kept on doing what they have done till that stage and nothing changed, you still got owned. Sorry Tyger, but you need to learn to follow orders of your SL, play together in a squad, and not go and do your own thing, when you are a SL, then you need to learn to think quicker and not do the same thing over and over. May I make a suggestion, on the public servers, play with Mega or Cronos and learn to move with them. Mega and Cronos had by far the best round of any of us, learn from them and learn to play without talking so much as you do really talk way too much in TS.

Cronos, I think your calls was good, unfortunately whenever you gave an order, Tyger would go and run off in a different direction or shout out a different order (Tyger, never again please!). The infantry squad (i.e. Alpha squad) will always be the front line squad and need to work together exceptionally well as a single unit. I will suggest that the four infantry guys start working together on public servers.

Mega, I think you had an exceptional round if I look at your KD and your overall scores at the end of each round you were up there with everybody. Your insights into the rest of Alpha squad will really be appreciated in terms of how Alpha squad can play together better. Also, I will like your views on you having stayed behind and defending the flags.

Shadey / Ice, you guys have not communicated well at all. Shadey, Ice dying whenever he tries to repair you is your fault. You need to ensure that your engineer is save. In a tank fight, the first target is always the guy who repairs the tank. If the tank driver can not keep the engineer save, the tank will die. That is why I’ve taken out Leps tank so many times, despite him having two spanner monkeys on him. Ice, if you get out, and your are getting shot at, jump back into the tank, immediately, tell Shadey to reverse or something before you jump out again. A good spanner monkey and a good tank driver, get by with very little communication.

Fly, sorry man, I wanted to give you a go at SL, so get ready for SL in the next clannie.
Jackal, sorry Jackal, you did not play in my squad, and I did not hear a lot from you so Cronos can provide you feedback. From my view, the fact that I did not hear much from you, the fact that you had a reasonable KD, tells me that you’ve done reasonably well.

Slodaz, Dazzie, I think you’ve had one of the best rounds I’ve had with you in ages. Granted we’ve been playing many years together as driver / gunner, so no problems from my side.

I think that was about it from individual players. On to the team play:

Team Speak, I think there is a lot of unnecessarily communication going on. Some examples:

Order given: “Alpha squad, Attack A” followed by comment from squad member, “Yes, that is a very good idea everybody let’s go to A.” Squad member, keep quiet and follow the order
“How is that possible, I’ve emptied a whole clip on Phatso and he still shot me”, bitching, avoid it.
“Ooooh, I’ve just knifed jonny in the back”, bragging, avoid it.
“ooh, Leppy is in a tank and he is coming down from main to market”. Too much info, press Q on your keyboard, spot the tank and perhaps say “Tank spotted”. End of story, the tank will appear on everybody’s map knowing exactly where it is.

Orders need to come from the Squad Leaders only, if you are a squad member, you need to stick to your squad leader like a bad flu. You NEVER let him out of sight, and immediately the communication for that squad will improve.


Strategy:
I think we are not playing together enough in order to employ a rolling strategy. We have done a lot better when we cap a flag, and we then defend that flag come hell or high water. The rolling strategy need to wait until we improved squad play more.

Mega have a point in that we need to split the squads, let’s test that out the next map. Also Mega, you are right in that we need to consider using 3 people per armour. Any volunteers for armour duty?

Overall:
Remember what the objective was for this game, was that we pitch up for the game and give the baggers a game. The first couple of maps was not that great, but it did come together at the end. There was a time that I was thinking we could actually pull it off too. The fact remains that we are mostly a bunch of new guys that have never played much together at all, they on the other hand is a bunch of old farts, we will still beat them.

The other thing that I wanted to sort out was communication, I think it went a lot better that previously, with only Tyger still talking way too much.

Lastly, I wanted to give different players an opportunity to play Squad Leader, I think Cronos did well, and I think Tyger showed some promise. I am sorry that I could not give Fly and Shadey a chance, and will do that the next game.

[Thor_23]

I made mistakes too so this feedback is only my obsevations.

Feedback for the people in my Squad:

Mega: Carried out orders and played very well. Was a stage tho when we were moving to attack that you broke off from my lead and took another route. Not saying the route I chose was the best, but we need to stick together above all else.
Jackal: Played well as far as I am concerned, had trouble getting you to hear some of the orders(could have been due to a lot of other chatter) Also, please focus on playing with more of the other kits(not medic), although you didnt fare badly with the assinged kits you need to be comftable playing any assinged kit.
Tyger: Dude you are a good player. When you did follow orders, you played well.

In general: We need to stick together as a squad when moving, also need to focus on making coordinated attacks instead of rushing in 1 by 1(this was my fault)

All in all, I had a very strong squad(capable of beating any squad the baggers can put forward) and that became clear as we carried on playing.

Thanks guys for the effort yesterday, and I think with some practise together there is a lot of potential.

[Stu]

my own personal points of improvement.

- Communication with Tank driver - re repairs
- Stick to repairs
- Sticking with squads

I found it extremely difficult to stick with Alpha in Seine crossing - need more communication on when you moving and how.

Suggestion

Splitting squads like Mega suggested. Amour in amour squad, inft split over 2 squads. Or any other configuration. .

One aspect was we had way to many engineers vs Medics! this led to a higher amount of ticket lost from the 3 medics we had on one map I died nearly 17 times and was not revived once! that's 17 tickets lost! count that over 8 players and you end up with a lot more tickets than you expected!

We need to set-up up dedicated squads Anti Amour / Anti Inft etc I think we were spawning in with different kits far to often to counter the armour and that left us vulnerable. I noticed that the Baggerz did not do this they seemed to have constant kits!

There is no point in running off without your medic! As by the time he reaches you he can't revive so we need to work on the squad movement more.

Things to practice.

overall a situation that I can live with but we have to work on the points raised! we have the ability to do so!

[TygerBS]

hahah will give a full run down of how i think things went shortly.

Just want to say. I played like shit, my head wasn't in it all day on Sunday. I was running around like a headless chicken. My teamwork was no where for that i am sorry.

[TygerBS]

I will start with the positives.
Thank you to everybody for being on the servers 15 minutes before the game that is really great.
Thank you Shadey for helping set up the server.
Thank you all to getting into your squads quickly, without problems nor issues.

Now the sad stuff.

Shadey, I disagree with some of what you said. The team that we have is a good team, but we need a lot more practise together. I have never disagreed that the baggers have individuals that is in a one on one match better than us, but BF3 and winning is not about individual play, it is about team work. Naming places is important, but I think one can easily go overboard as well. Nothing wrong with calling “B-Flag, A-Flag, C-Flag”, but I do have a problem, “up in the building” as that doesn’t tell one anything.

With regard to not knowing all three maps, the thread said we will be playing an infantry only map, both Cronos and me understood that it would have been Metro, I will take it up with Hubris.

Not picking on any single player, but since Shadey indicated that Tyger should be in the baggers team and that Tyger was upset for not making the Baggers, my views, sorry Tyger, you may consider yourself a highly skilled player but sorry dude you did not impress me at all yesterday. Cronos was the SL, Cronos was giving the commands in the first two maps, however, if Cronos said something you always chirped back, or if somebody say let’s go A, you will comment “Yes, that is a good idea let’s go.” Tyger, you need to learn to keep your mouth quiet and listen to what your SL tells you. You had a horrible KD ratio, and the only reason why, was because whenever I looked at the map, you were always away from the rest of your squad.

Tyger, there was a good reason why I’ve made you the SL on the last map. I wanted to see if you could manage a squad. It did go quite well at the last map, we were leading for a long time but unfortunately you were unable to adapt your strategy once the Baggers figured out what you are doing. For instance, when I suggested that your squad start using Soflam to take care of the tank, and you agreed that it is a good idea, not a single command came from you to tell your squad members who need to do what in order to make the Soflam work. Instead, your squad just kept on doing what they have done till that stage and nothing changed, you still got owned. Sorry Tyger, but you need to learn to follow orders of your SL, play together in a squad, and not go and do your own thing, when you are a SL, then you need to learn to think quicker and not do the same thing over and over. May I make a suggestion, on the public servers, play with Mega or Cronos and learn to move with them. Mega and Cronos had by far the best round of any of us, learn from them and learn to play without talking so much as you do really talk way too much in TS.

Cronos, I think your calls was good, unfortunately whenever you gave an order, Tyger would go and run off in a different direction or shout out a different order (Tyger, never again please!). The infantry squad (i.e. Alpha squad) will always be the front line squad and need to work together exceptionally well as a single unit. I will suggest that the four infantry guys start working together on public servers.

Mega, I think you had an exceptional round if I look at your KD and your overall scores at the end of each round you were up there with everybody. Your insights into the rest of Alpha squad will really be appreciated in terms of how Alpha squad can play together better. Also, I will like your views on you having stayed behind and defending the flags.

Shadey / Ice, you guys have not communicated well at all. Shadey, Ice dying whenever he tries to repair you is your fault. You need to ensure that your engineer is save. In a tank fight, the first target is always the guy who repairs the tank. If the tank driver can not keep the engineer save, the tank will die. That is why I’ve taken out Leps tank so many times, despite him having two spanner monkeys on him. Ice, if you get out, and your are getting shot at, jump back into the tank, immediately, tell Shadey to reverse or something before you jump out again. A good spanner monkey and a good tank driver, get by with very little communication.

Fly, sorry man, I wanted to give you a go at SL, so get ready for SL in the next clannie.
Jackal, sorry Jackal, you did not play in my squad, and I did not hear a lot from you so Cronos can provide you feedback. From my view, the fact that I did not hear much from you, the fact that you had a reasonable KD, tells me that you’ve done reasonably well.

Slodaz, Dazzie, I think you’ve had one of the best rounds I’ve had with you in ages. Granted we’ve been playing many years together as driver / gunner, so no problems from my side.

I think that was about it from individual players. On to the team play:

Team Speak, I think there is a lot of unnecessarily communication going on. Some examples:

Order given: “Alpha squad, Attack A” followed by comment from squad member, “Yes, that is a very good idea everybody let’s go to A.” Squad member, keep quiet and follow the order
“How is that possible, I’ve emptied a whole clip on Phatso and he still shot me”, bitching, avoid it.
“Ooooh, I’ve just knifed jonny in the back”, bragging, avoid it.
“ooh, Leppy is in a tank and he is coming down from main to market”. Too much info, press Q on your keyboard, spot the tank and perhaps say “Tank spotted”. End of story, the tank will appear on everybody’s map knowing exactly where it is.

Orders need to come from the Squad Leaders only, if you are a squad member, you need to stick to your squad leader like a bad flu. You NEVER let him out of sight, and immediately the communication for that squad will improve.


Strategy:
I think we are not playing together enough in order to employ a rolling strategy. We have done a lot better when we cap a flag, and we then defend that flag come hell or high water. The rolling strategy need to wait until we improved squad play more.

Mega have a point in that we need to split the squads, let’s test that out the next map. Also Mega, you are right in that we need to consider using 3 people per armour. Any volunteers for armour duty?

Overall:
Remember what the objective was for this game, was that we pitch up for the game and give the baggers a game. The first couple of maps was not that great, but it did come together at the end. There was a time that I was thinking we could actually pull it off too. The fact remains that we are mostly a bunch of new guys that have never played much together at all, they on the other hand is a bunch of old farts, we will still beat them.

The other thing that I wanted to sort out was communication, I think it went a lot better that previously, with only Tyger still talking way too much.

Lastly, I wanted to give different players an opportunity to play Squad Leader, I think Cronos did well, and I think Tyger showed some promise. I am sorry that I could not give Fly and Shadey a chance, and will do that the next game.

Perdjtie firstly you are right i did need some singling out for the way I played. It wasn't good, and my communication was poor.
I think in order for us to improve we need to be open and honest with each other with out fear of hurting each others feelings.
So thanks for starting that trend.

However i think you fail to see a number of things.
Cronos played well individually, but his squad leading in my opinion was not good. This is partly the reason why i spoke up too often and was doing my own thing often.
The reacting to what the enemy was doing, was too slow. Once we got a flag, we just stagnated.
If its one thing i have learnt from all BF games is... you fail if you are reacting, you win if you are proactive. And this quite simply means.... keep moving. We were totally static.
Squad leading is not only about issuing of commands and them being followed, squad leading is about getting the guys on the right path at any given situation.
Because what to do(ie commands given) should be natural for the given situation.
Now this not to say i do better at sqaud leading. I know for a fact i dont. I am not a good squad leader. But i am very good at the situational awareness and where to go next.
I was squad leader in the last map. I felt we played better on that last map, mostly because we were proactive against them. I formulated plan and we followed through.
It fell apart towards the end, when i repeatedly made a mission to get behind their lines and asked people to spawn on me and no one did. I admit i lost interest at that point.

In terms of squad leaders and team leaders.
This inst enough. People need to be divided up into pairs, and each pair has a leader. We didn't have that setup right last night.
This actually needs to be a dedicated thing, that these guys play together all the time like this. And the balance has to be right.
There are different types of players, attacking/leading and defending/following players. Each pair needs a leader and a follower.
I am an attacking player, i am used to playing with a defending player who sticks on me no matter what, and move together.
Last night when I went off on my own mission(wrongly i know) i kept thinking i had support, only to look up and find no one.

Which brings me to a further point, following squad leaders orders is important, how ever, squad leader only knows what he has seen, not what the other players have seen.
Therefore it is important to have 2 individual 2 man groups with in a squad that can operate separately at times.
Infact this is vital!
In all successful teams i have played in, this is what happens. 2 guys operate together with in the squad structure, with the squad coming together as a whole during starting procedures and when 4 men are required for a particular situation.
This is also particular important when moving between points. The squad should not move as all 4 following the same route if there is more than one route!
This is what happened last night, lets go there was the command, so we move off, i see the leader taking one route, I take the other route, but have no buddy with me, so it failed.

As for using soflam and stuff like that, these are equipment things that will come with time. Same as the squad perks. If you notice i give no credence to that stuff, as it is by far the least important factor in clan games. having the right equipment for the job is key(i.e anti-tank for tanks), but fiddling with the finner details is not. This is something you tweak once you have the basics right.

Then on to the Side leading. This was also one of the biggest failings.
The side leader need to be telling both squad what he wants, where to go, and how to do it.
We had none of that, i asked a number of times about this to no avail.

Comma, everyone of us is guilty of poor coms.
Yes we need to name and define things clearly.
But this also come part and parcel with having your 2 man fuck buddy pairs, who after a while shouldn't need to say a word to each other.
I think for no for practice, we should split into different voice channels for the 2 squads, this will help.
Yes i also talked to much in coms, i am however used to directing strategy, as this is what i did in my prev clans. Not squad leader, but side leader.


Your talk of not employing a rolling strategy is wrong.
Its the only way to play the game. You stand still and you gonna die, defending can only last for so long.
And on these maps there is always a way around.

[Voetsek-Mikey]

Sorry i cant play. I probably would not have made a difference.

I think you guys/girls are to hard on yourselves.

When i joined Grrr i started in the second team. And only went up to the first team because i play loads and practiced with all the first team players loads. And BTW i still sucked.

But work/RL and other stuff can be a bitch, that's just life. There will always be better players out there. Just follow them learn how thy play and then. And then give them the old big stick in the back.

Just vent your feelings and learn from it.

And practice/practice/PRACTICE


( I'm gone try to play as much as i can.................. Promise)

[flycatchr]

so much of words and communication - so cool

I would like to apologize for mentioning the knifing of jono - BUT he was an obstacle from one direction that was part of a stagnation. I will in future make a point of mentioning only that the obstacle is down. I believe it is important to mention names as well as tanks/apcs and positions, as we don't all look at a larger portion of our minimap - so if we know the tank is at C and we are at B we can move to A this also makes it plain who is down and who is still alive on the enemies side. there where many times when ice pointed out which floor that the enemas where on that got us a few kills.

we also didnt use height above the points in sein as much as we could have
AND we certainly got pwnd because we walked into lees spotting machine too often - we need to use one for ourselves as well.

[Megageth]

FYI Motion sensors dont pick you up if you move slowly.

[Skouperd]

So what you are saying is that Slodaz need to be the dedicated scout for motion sensors?