I havent played clannies in a while and last night was a good match. We lost narrowly but given disco's and ping issues I thought we played well and I enjoy competitive games regardless of outcome.
That said, I have a few things to air from the perspective of a Squad Leader.
We use one Teamspeak channel so it is impractical and distracting for both (or all 3) Squad Leaders to issue instructions continually. What I try to do when I am a member of a squad is to assess what the SL's objectives are and assist. Is the SL defending a point? Moving to attack a point? Assess and assist. If you dont know what to do and TS is quiet I suggest saying something like "Murgs at B awaiting instructions" or "Shadey waiting to spawn". Try to remember that an SL has to assess the game, stay alive, kill, take flags, work out who is alive/dead/where on the map and issue instructions.
Last night in the first round I saw that the APC that spawns at A was unused, armour squad were occupied. I used it to defend A and B and Mikey did an awesome job of assisting me. Murgs and Shadey were without instructions for a long time. I was too occupied to see what you were up to but I would like to assume that you stuck together and assaulted flags.
In the 2nd round I was on foot more and issuing more instructions. Some were followed, some weren't. Sometimes it is impossible to follow orders but if the SL says "attack C" and you are still moving towards B then you are failing.
At one point, our entire squad was down except me. I said "Infantry squad hold spawn." I took a quad to a back flag and asked for spawn, I got 1 out of 3 spawning. If Mikey managed then I am unclear on why the other 2 failed. It is frustrating for SLs to issue commands that are ignored and then to hear that "You weren't issuing enough orders."
I enjoyed last night's game but I do not want to be SL where we are failing as a unit. I would rather be under someone else's leadership.
Squad Leaders Discussion
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s3xy_j0nny
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Re: Squad Leaders Discussion
Ja, one of the hardest, and yet the most important things for squad members to adhere to in a clannie is the chain of command. You may not agree with/like an order issued by your SL, but our success as a team depends on you following orders quickly and efficiently. A prime example of an excellent squad member (one whom I would pick for my squad any day) is Daz. If at any time during a clannie he is unsure of what to do he asks, quickly and simply "what do you need/where do you want me". That is all it takes if you are unsure of what you should be doing.
Having said that, here are a few simple guidelines for squad members during a clannie which, in my experience, make the SL's job easier:
1. If you have been assigned a certain kit for the start of a clannie, you should stick with that kit until your SL asks you to change it. You may think a situation requires you to change kit, and you may be absolutely right, but you should ALWAYS check with your SL before changing kit. Many of the most experienced players are guilty of kit changing without permission. Several times I have been in a clannie situation where a change of kit by a single player has left the whole squad fucked.
2. If you see your entire squad is down and there is an enemy force still present nearby, find a nice quiet corner and hide. One of the benefits of BC2 is that any member of a squad can act as spawn point. It is far more valuable for your team for you to remain alive as a spawn point in close proximity to an objective than to charge into the same enemies that just killed your teamies and end up with the same fate.
3. Know your own strengths and the strengths of your squad mates, and adapt your play accordingly. As an example, you'll see that there are certain players that will nearly always have a prolific KDR like murgs and Mega. If you are in murgs' squad, chances are that you will benefit the squad and team most by supporting him and keeping him in the business of fragging baddies. These players know where the important movement channels are on each map and have developed their game to cover those channels as effectively as possible.
4. In between rounds is a bad, bad, bad, terrible time to start expounding your ideas on how to shuffle up the team for the next round. End of discussion. One of the reasons we always do better in the second round is that we have settled into our roles and what is required of us on a specific map (admittedly this is something that should be in effect before the match even starts, but practices and walkthroughs are WOEFULLY poorly attended by our team). It may not be the role that a player is best suited to, but they have just spent a round getting into the swing of things, and disrupting that swing can only be detrimental.
5. Lines of fire: The first of my 'pet peeves'. Basically it works like this: If your squad is on a flag capping/defending it, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY, DO NOT SIT NEXT TO YOUR SL OR SQUAD MATES LOOKING IN THE SAME DIRECTION AS THEM. If you see a member of your team covering entrance A, go and cover entrance B/C/D/anywhere other than where he/she is watching. It is becoming an increasingly common occurence in clannies that I get squad members spawning on me and then coming to sit on my lap, resulting in the first baddie that sees us shooting us both to ribbons whilst I watch helplessly because the only line of fire I have is directly into my teamie's back.
6. Revives: My number 1 'pet peeve'. I doubt that there is anyone in [grrr] who has ever played medic that I haven't shat out from a dizzy height about appropriate revive timing. It's the most simple thing to understand: if your squad mate is down and there are still enemies around, think VERY carefully before reviving them. I know that in conquest, every successful revive is a ticket saved, but every bad revive results in 2 tickets lost (the medic and the player that they just revived in front of a tank get creamed) and a delay in a player's respawn time. i.e. If I am dead for 10 seconds, then get revived and insta killed again, that is a total of 25 seconds that I am out of the game before I can respawn and help, whereas if the medic had used their brain and decided against the revive, I would be respawned after 15 seconds and ready to deploy where I am most needed. What we need to remember in clannies is that a dead player who is ready to spawn anywhere on the map can be the most useful player in the game.
7. This one pertains specifically to Mega and I as SL's. We have similar styles as SL in clannies: cap a flag, secure it, leave your squad to defend it whilst you ninja to the next objective. This style of play is particularly suited to maps like Panama Canal which are open and have large distances between flags. The idea behind this strat is to have a spawn point ninja'd close to an enemy flag so that if the flag you are defending is overrun, you can spawn on us and quickly assault the next flag. With this in mind, if I issue the command to defend a flag, THAT COMMAND STANDS UNTIL A NEW ONE IS ISSUED. I don't care if you thought it was time to spawn on me instead, don't fucking do it. This goes back to my opening point: follow orders, even if you think your ideas are better. This happened several times last night vs. SSG.
Will add to this post when I formulate some more thoughts into coherent verbal diatribe.
Addendum:
8. Assess before engaging the enemy: Immediately opening fire on the first baddie you see is not always the best course of action (*GASP!*). En route to a flag last night, my squad encountered a single enemy running past us to the flag we had just left. That enemy did not see us. My orders were along the lines of "straight to flag X, leave the troop". He was headed to a flag that was being defended by our armour and infants. Myself and the first two squad members carried on, whilst the last member of the squad ignored the command and pursued the troop, firing on them from distance. End result: The baddie returned fire and killed that squad member, sighted us and then changed direction to follow us to the flag. By the time we had it neutral, that enemy's entire squad had spawned on him and they proceeded to take down the 3 of us busy capping. There were only 3 of us because that 4th squad member had proceeded to spawn on the flag we had left rather than on his squad at the flag we were capping.
Having said that, here are a few simple guidelines for squad members during a clannie which, in my experience, make the SL's job easier:
1. If you have been assigned a certain kit for the start of a clannie, you should stick with that kit until your SL asks you to change it. You may think a situation requires you to change kit, and you may be absolutely right, but you should ALWAYS check with your SL before changing kit. Many of the most experienced players are guilty of kit changing without permission. Several times I have been in a clannie situation where a change of kit by a single player has left the whole squad fucked.
2. If you see your entire squad is down and there is an enemy force still present nearby, find a nice quiet corner and hide. One of the benefits of BC2 is that any member of a squad can act as spawn point. It is far more valuable for your team for you to remain alive as a spawn point in close proximity to an objective than to charge into the same enemies that just killed your teamies and end up with the same fate.
3. Know your own strengths and the strengths of your squad mates, and adapt your play accordingly. As an example, you'll see that there are certain players that will nearly always have a prolific KDR like murgs and Mega. If you are in murgs' squad, chances are that you will benefit the squad and team most by supporting him and keeping him in the business of fragging baddies. These players know where the important movement channels are on each map and have developed their game to cover those channels as effectively as possible.
4. In between rounds is a bad, bad, bad, terrible time to start expounding your ideas on how to shuffle up the team for the next round. End of discussion. One of the reasons we always do better in the second round is that we have settled into our roles and what is required of us on a specific map (admittedly this is something that should be in effect before the match even starts, but practices and walkthroughs are WOEFULLY poorly attended by our team). It may not be the role that a player is best suited to, but they have just spent a round getting into the swing of things, and disrupting that swing can only be detrimental.
5. Lines of fire: The first of my 'pet peeves'. Basically it works like this: If your squad is on a flag capping/defending it, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY, DO NOT SIT NEXT TO YOUR SL OR SQUAD MATES LOOKING IN THE SAME DIRECTION AS THEM. If you see a member of your team covering entrance A, go and cover entrance B/C/D/anywhere other than where he/she is watching. It is becoming an increasingly common occurence in clannies that I get squad members spawning on me and then coming to sit on my lap, resulting in the first baddie that sees us shooting us both to ribbons whilst I watch helplessly because the only line of fire I have is directly into my teamie's back.
6. Revives: My number 1 'pet peeve'. I doubt that there is anyone in [grrr] who has ever played medic that I haven't shat out from a dizzy height about appropriate revive timing. It's the most simple thing to understand: if your squad mate is down and there are still enemies around, think VERY carefully before reviving them. I know that in conquest, every successful revive is a ticket saved, but every bad revive results in 2 tickets lost (the medic and the player that they just revived in front of a tank get creamed) and a delay in a player's respawn time. i.e. If I am dead for 10 seconds, then get revived and insta killed again, that is a total of 25 seconds that I am out of the game before I can respawn and help, whereas if the medic had used their brain and decided against the revive, I would be respawned after 15 seconds and ready to deploy where I am most needed. What we need to remember in clannies is that a dead player who is ready to spawn anywhere on the map can be the most useful player in the game.
7. This one pertains specifically to Mega and I as SL's. We have similar styles as SL in clannies: cap a flag, secure it, leave your squad to defend it whilst you ninja to the next objective. This style of play is particularly suited to maps like Panama Canal which are open and have large distances between flags. The idea behind this strat is to have a spawn point ninja'd close to an enemy flag so that if the flag you are defending is overrun, you can spawn on us and quickly assault the next flag. With this in mind, if I issue the command to defend a flag, THAT COMMAND STANDS UNTIL A NEW ONE IS ISSUED. I don't care if you thought it was time to spawn on me instead, don't fucking do it. This goes back to my opening point: follow orders, even if you think your ideas are better. This happened several times last night vs. SSG.
Will add to this post when I formulate some more thoughts into coherent verbal diatribe.
Addendum:
8. Assess before engaging the enemy: Immediately opening fire on the first baddie you see is not always the best course of action (*GASP!*). En route to a flag last night, my squad encountered a single enemy running past us to the flag we had just left. That enemy did not see us. My orders were along the lines of "straight to flag X, leave the troop". He was headed to a flag that was being defended by our armour and infants. Myself and the first two squad members carried on, whilst the last member of the squad ignored the command and pursued the troop, firing on them from distance. End result: The baddie returned fire and killed that squad member, sighted us and then changed direction to follow us to the flag. By the time we had it neutral, that enemy's entire squad had spawned on him and they proceeded to take down the 3 of us busy capping. There were only 3 of us because that 4th squad member had proceeded to spawn on the flag we had left rather than on his squad at the flag we were capping.
From the darkness you must fall
Failed and weak, to darkness all.
Re: Squad Leaders Discussion
Name and guys! Seriously it might sound harsh but speaking in general terms won't help the players as they (we) will assume this doesn't apply to us. "But I always follow orders!" etc
E.g. when Murgs (rightly so) kak'd me out in his one post for talking too much in TS, it got throught. Since then (please correct me if I am wrong) I don't think I have said a word in TS unless it was necessary.
We are all grown up and unless you are uber sensitive you won't mind getting a litte "advice"
E.g. when Murgs (rightly so) kak'd me out in his one post for talking too much in TS, it got throught. Since then (please correct me if I am wrong) I don't think I have said a word in TS unless it was necessary.
We are all grown up and unless you are uber sensitive you won't mind getting a litte "advice"
Re: Squad Leaders Discussion
I agree. A few months back we agreed to have post-mortems after each game where we'd openly discuss issues that occurred within the game, criticising directly where appropriate.
I know that all of us are big enough and (in Paul's case) ugly enough to take a little direct criticism in the interest of our improvement as a team.
I know that all of us are big enough and (in Paul's case) ugly enough to take a little direct criticism in the interest of our improvement as a team.
Re: Squad Leaders Discussion
My response... not personal, just want us to get on the same page so we can improve.
Prodigal1 said "Last night in the first round I saw that the APC that spawns at A was unused, armour squad were occupied. I used it to defend A and B and Mikey did an awesome job of assisting me. Murgs and Shadey were without instructions for a long time. I was too occupied to see what you were up to but I would like to assume that you stuck together and assaulted flags."
Jonny said "cap a flag, secure it, leave your squad to defend it whilst you ninja to the next objective ....... With this in mind, if I issue the command to defend a flag, THAT COMMAND STANDS UNTIL A NEW ONE IS ISSUED"
I am under the impression, we have been working hard to stick together as a squad. Prodigal1, you should of been leading with us following, or else given us clear and explict orders to go do our own thing. Jonny says we must stick with previous orders until ordered not to. To be honest... neither of the above statements by you guys fits in with what worked well in our previous matches where we won, because we stuck close together. This is why I complained about not having orders, because I am expecting to keep close to my squad leader, so he is nearby and aware of what is happening close to us, thus able to issue orders much more often for me to follow. When we move, we move out as a squad, or else, someone who is not the squad leader, is told to do the ninja thing, but the squad leader stays and leads the rest of the squad. The ninja returns as soon as his objective is accomplished without anyone needing to say a word.
Twice in our SSG match I sat for over a minute on teamspeak, waiting to spawn, not able to spawn on my squad leader for some reason. I'm guessing he was in a full tank / apc. Problem was, I'm in the designated infantry squad... Also I got stuck waiting to spawn with no idea what to do, as we had just lost the flag we were told to defend and had no new orders.
Without regular orders from my squad leader (and by this I mean I want to hear from you, at least once a minute), I get lost and find myself having to guess what would be best, and then we are no longer working well as a co-ordinated team. If you are squad leader and give the order to defend somewhere, repeat the order a minute or two later, and so on again. This helps me keep focused on what you want. This also means if you wander off a bit, to do something, I don't end up following you because I'm being left behind (we are supposed to be sticking together) and find myself having to guess at whats going on, because you have stopped issuing orders.
Finally I'm going to say this. Didn't think I would come to this conclusion but... I want to play with 7 other players, who are the same players from match to match. We started doing well as we kept the same team and were all on the same page. As soon as we throw in a new player who missed the last couple matches... things start breaking down again and this disrupts the whole squad that player is part of. I think I'd prefer a poorer quality player who is present for every match and so we can learn to work together to improve our teamwork, than the more skilled but not there for every match player, who is out of sync with how we have been working together the few couple matches. Sundays match we clearly were not "working close together" like we had been in the previous two matches. This is when the enemy rolls over us, killing two or three of us and managing to revive all their squad mates and we loose tickets having to respawn.
Paul... you've been great on ts. You listened to what I said and things are working better because of that.
Prodigal1 said "Last night in the first round I saw that the APC that spawns at A was unused, armour squad were occupied. I used it to defend A and B and Mikey did an awesome job of assisting me. Murgs and Shadey were without instructions for a long time. I was too occupied to see what you were up to but I would like to assume that you stuck together and assaulted flags."
Jonny said "cap a flag, secure it, leave your squad to defend it whilst you ninja to the next objective ....... With this in mind, if I issue the command to defend a flag, THAT COMMAND STANDS UNTIL A NEW ONE IS ISSUED"
I am under the impression, we have been working hard to stick together as a squad. Prodigal1, you should of been leading with us following, or else given us clear and explict orders to go do our own thing. Jonny says we must stick with previous orders until ordered not to. To be honest... neither of the above statements by you guys fits in with what worked well in our previous matches where we won, because we stuck close together. This is why I complained about not having orders, because I am expecting to keep close to my squad leader, so he is nearby and aware of what is happening close to us, thus able to issue orders much more often for me to follow. When we move, we move out as a squad, or else, someone who is not the squad leader, is told to do the ninja thing, but the squad leader stays and leads the rest of the squad. The ninja returns as soon as his objective is accomplished without anyone needing to say a word.
Twice in our SSG match I sat for over a minute on teamspeak, waiting to spawn, not able to spawn on my squad leader for some reason. I'm guessing he was in a full tank / apc. Problem was, I'm in the designated infantry squad... Also I got stuck waiting to spawn with no idea what to do, as we had just lost the flag we were told to defend and had no new orders.
Without regular orders from my squad leader (and by this I mean I want to hear from you, at least once a minute), I get lost and find myself having to guess what would be best, and then we are no longer working well as a co-ordinated team. If you are squad leader and give the order to defend somewhere, repeat the order a minute or two later, and so on again. This helps me keep focused on what you want. This also means if you wander off a bit, to do something, I don't end up following you because I'm being left behind (we are supposed to be sticking together) and find myself having to guess at whats going on, because you have stopped issuing orders.
Finally I'm going to say this. Didn't think I would come to this conclusion but... I want to play with 7 other players, who are the same players from match to match. We started doing well as we kept the same team and were all on the same page. As soon as we throw in a new player who missed the last couple matches... things start breaking down again and this disrupts the whole squad that player is part of. I think I'd prefer a poorer quality player who is present for every match and so we can learn to work together to improve our teamwork, than the more skilled but not there for every match player, who is out of sync with how we have been working together the few couple matches. Sundays match we clearly were not "working close together" like we had been in the previous two matches. This is when the enemy rolls over us, killing two or three of us and managing to revive all their squad mates and we loose tickets having to respawn.
Paul... you've been great on ts. You listened to what I said and things are working better because of that.
Re: Squad Leaders Discussion
I agree with team consistency. I am happy to play off the bench (as was the case last night) as I have not been part of the core team. I wasn't keen to play SL and was assigned that role shortly before the game started and did my best. Murgs, as I said, if you are not sure what you should be doing ie no recent instructions from SL then, as I posted, ask. Sometimes as SL you busy fighting or assessing enemy strats and you are not aware that squad members are twiddling their thumbs.
Re: Squad Leaders Discussion
Yeah, tbh, I didn't even know till the match started that you were squad leader and start giving orders to "spawn on me"... then I figured out... oh, he's squad leader and Voetsek isn't leading.
I think maybe why us sticking close worked in previous matches, is when we were busy fighting, no one needed orders from the SL. When fighting stopped, we were close together, so squad leader knew what we were doing and that we were now twiddling our thumbs like he was.
I definitely think sticking close together is a good thing. Especially if we are moving forward, as we have just cleared the area behind us and thus are all on the look out ahead for the enemy. If an enemy pops up, we can quickly do revives and all open fire in return.
I think maybe why us sticking close worked in previous matches, is when we were busy fighting, no one needed orders from the SL. When fighting stopped, we were close together, so squad leader knew what we were doing and that we were now twiddling our thumbs like he was.
I definitely think sticking close together is a good thing. Especially if we are moving forward, as we have just cleared the area behind us and thus are all on the look out ahead for the enemy. If an enemy pops up, we can quickly do revives and all open fire in return.
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s3xy_j0nny
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Re: Squad Leaders Discussion
Good points being raised here. Keen to hear everyone's take on things. Post your opinions if you haven't yet.
From the darkness you must fall
Failed and weak, to darkness all.