Debrief - Friendly versus BFB

[pmurgs]

Ok, games over, fresh in my mind, here's my thoughts.

Taking the APC to C and expecting them not to be there already was just... ok, im going to call a spade a spade... retarded! Second... whomever takes the buggy's needs to practise the route. You need to be able to hit the route perfect to get those few seconds advantage. Third, we need to pick our spot to park the buggy when we arrive and the sqaud spawns. I spawned and died because an enemy buggy arrived right after us and ran me down.

UAV... Prisma was awesome with it. Really hard to kill, and he got lots of kills. I killed him twice at C when he was alone there on the uav. We need to think about using the UAV. It's an awesome tool.

Spawning at start of round. I was upset because one of us spawned when he shouldnt have at the start of the round. This lack of being patient to wait for your command could cost us the match. It's a stupid mistake. DO NOT MAKE IT.

Our plans for how to assault and defend flags... are non existant. We need to think through where each person in our squad will be, if the enemy gives us time to hold a flag. We need to have our bases covered. Even having someone ready to shoot them from behind as they come in, is a great idea. BFB did that to us at B, they had a defender below B close to the water, who came up to kill us from behind, when we hit the ridge at the edge of B.

Oh and spawning was also bad. B squad leader takes buggy at start of round to C and I see one of our guys spawns and grabs a buggy as well. We need to wait for our desigated spawner to reach the point. Or designate two people in seperate buggy's, but it needed to be decided upon.

We took C a couple of times, when I saw they were defending B and A, so I rushed off in a buggy by myself without orders, but noticed everyone in my squad spawned on me then at C. We need to discuss the whens and when not to, break away from your squad to go for a flag when we in trouble.

Anyway, was horribly hard match.

[Skouperd]

I think Squad A played very well together. Squad B, not so well. We really did not work together as a squad, and that cost us the game. Murgs / Dazzie / Stukkend, we need to team up more often on the public servers to play together in a squad or else this will become a very long league indeed.

One of the problems I've experienced with B is the lack of communication. Nobody was talking, if you go for Flag C for instance, just SAY so and the whole squad can go with you, or we can make a call and say rather defend / attack "B". But if you just leave your squad alone, then chances are that squad is performing sub-optimum. I had on numerous occasions asking for sensor mines only to find out either we don't have a recon guy in our mists, or the recon guy is way off in a different part of the world. Dazzie asked on numerous occasions for Ammo packs. It should become second nature to the assault guys that when they spawn, toss an Ammo pack next to Recon. Recon needs to be the "secure" spawning point for us, hiding away, just tossing out mines etc. When you spawn on him, toss him a ammo pack. Unless we are going to work together, we will have a problem come Thursday.

We need to learn to play with different kits. Murgs / Stukkend you are both very good Assault guys, but we do need a medic and a sniper and an enigneer as well. If we are not defending "A" then we can do without an engineer and I can spawn Medic. But we must all be comfortable to be able to pick up another kit and play with it. This is especially true of the the medic and the recon kits. Right now, that does not happen. If a sniper kit, either our own sniper / or that of the enemy is down, pick it up, toss out his sensor mines, and pick your kit up again. Medic, same, pick it up, toss out med packs, pick your kit up again etc. We are not doing that. We are too fixated with our specific kits we are playing with.

When you are dead, you have the option to spawn as a different kit, just ask what kit is needed and spawn with that. And please, spawn with that kit that is being asked for.

The strategy of taking the APC to C was daft, that is my bad. The APC should be going to A. Quads need to go to "C" or "B".

I still found that there was a lot of fooling around in the beginning of the game. This is really not the time to fool around. Important discussions was missed because of this. We can all fool around AFTER the game, but when we entered that password to logon to the server, we need to be serious. When the final match is over, let's fool around all we want too but please, not before then.

I think we are reasonably clear with regards to the spawning at the beginning of the game, but it is very easy to get over eager and spawn. If this does happen, Fly received confirmation that you could suicide, (BEFORE the game commences) but that will costs us valuable tickets. If you don't suicide, it will cost us the game.

Ok, some positives. Squad A did play well together. They did manage to keep up the tickets on their side. Both squads defended a single flag relatively well. The fact that the APC cumulates the passengers onboard's perks is an important point that we do need to maximise on.

[pmurgs]

Nobody was talking, if you go for Flag C for instance, just SAY so and the whole squad can go with you

Each time I did this, it was because we were walking into a wall at either A or B, and being harassed by the UAV as well, so I figured, if they are down one guy to fly the UAV, we can be down one guy for me to go take out the UAV by killing the opperator, and then we can spawn at C which I knew had only one person, because the rest of their team was engaging us at A and B.

Dazzie asked on numerous occasions for Ammo packs. It should become second nature to the assault guys that when they spawn, toss an Ammo pack next to Recon

Three of the times he asked for ammo, I know I was dead. Then I spawn and before I can do anything, I'm getting shot again. I found spawning on a squad mate when we were being engaged didn't get me a second of breathing space to even think about dropping an ammo pack. That damn UAV overhead shooting at me and the person I was spawning on, was totally disconcerting. You look around for who is shooting you, but dont look up and see it's the UAV, so you run round a couple corners, hoping to get out of the fire, but the UAV follows and your still at a loss for where the enemy is, then I run into an enemy on the ground and die. That UAV was nasty, totally disrupted my game several times.

In hindsight after the game, I only figured out exactly how the UAV was being used. Prisma would fly it behind us (with the enemy being on the opposite side to us) and then shoot at us. Basically, the UAV was used to flank us and totally threw me off, as I had fire coming at me from both sides. If we hold C, we need someone on the UAV with the extra gun perk, using it to harass the enemy somewhere. It's like having a very mobile player who is hard to spot and kill and can support the other squad, if C is not under attack.

[pmurgs]

One other thing, when BFB came for C, they never came in the front door. They always approached coming below the ridge to the west of the main entrance for cover, then went directly for the stairs with the entrance on the outside of the building. I think this is an excellent tactic, which I always use myself on the public servers.

So we need a plan to stop approaching that way, when we hold C. People on the roof of the building cannot hit people using the ridge for cover, and once the enemy is at the stairs, they basically can pop out on any level to start shooting us. Maybe we postion someone on the ground floor, outside the stairs to the south a bit, who can shoot at anyone coming from the north, trying to use the ridge for cover.

I was also thinking, at the start of the round, perhaps we should have two buggies go for C, one direct in the front door, landing on the flag, on driving along the ridge below the building, and heading up the stairs. This gives us two spawn points for the remaining two squad members waiting to spawn. Also, if as we've seen at the start of rounds, the enemy is hot on our heels to C in buggies of their own, if we die at the flag, we don't loose everyone and then not have a spawn point at C. We still have the guy(s) who arrived at the stairs via the ridge, who can hide for the rest of us to spawn on, or fire down from above to help us with the enemy who arrived at the flag right behind us.

[Skouperd]

Surely it is not only pMurgs and myself that have views on last nights game?

Murgs, I was thinking the same thing about taking two buggies to "C". One stop below the ridge and make a run for it, the other one go and cap the flag / engage in the enemy. The ridge quad need to toss the sensor mines as soon as they can, preferably from the back of the building. (since the first buggy is attacking from the front).


I got seriously pissed off yesterday, because I normally give the guy I am spawning on warning that I will spawn in 5 seconds. I expect that one of the following responses after I've said : "Spawning Murgs, in 5" (Murgs, I am using you as an example).

Murgs can then make a call and say:
1. "No, too dangerous, don't spawn on me"
2. "Wait, I am getting cover first, will let you know when ready for you to spawn".
3. "Thanks, spawn on me, bring ammo with" (or sensors or whatever).

It is freaken pointless to spawn and get killed within a second and it happened a lot. I blame the guy on who you've spawned just as much for this happening. Also, if you know you will spawn, warn the guy on who you are spawning because they will from reflex kill you.


2.

[StuKKenD]

What i saw last night.

Agreed , Squad A did there job well.

Squad B , we need to select our spawn point after the guys bails from the quad , otherwise we spawn at deployment zone. Costs us time.
We were not sticking together and all of us were rushing in blindly to the flags again. We need to keep 1 guy back as a spawn point no matter how bad
it is on the flag.
The idea of picking ip kits and throwing med packs and ammo is the way to go.
I will play only as medic for the next few days on FFA for some practice.
We seem to get to the flags late everytime with BFB taking C and B at the same time. This also needs to be worked on , even if we take 1 guy from each squad
and let them rush b , the 3 from the other squads can focus on A and C.
Our entry points are horrible nad we are not sneaky enough , we are taking flags standing in the open , we should learn where the hiding spots are which still take the flag.
We need to follow orders , no matter what "Referring to sticking together and kits requests". So that when we lose we can blame Skouperd
We'll need to get more friendlies before league games, we need it.

BFB seemed to have 2 to 3 guys taking the flag and 1 to 2 sweepers combing the buildings and flanking the flag to pick off tragglers while we were all focused on the flag and what was happening there. We should let the guys on the flag try and hold it while the others concentrate on the flanking enemies.

Anyways , was still fun. Great learning curbs.

Later

StuKKenD

[ChaosADPumpkinHead]

Skouperd, thanks for the comments on Alpha squad but remember that we have been playing together for ages so we have an understanding between us.

The poor showing for Bravo is basically my fault and I will accept that. When I assigned the squads, I look at Alpha first and wanted to make at least one tough, tight squad. That I think we have! In the process I feel Bravo is a bit disjointed and we need to address this ASAP!

Bravo: Skouperd is your squad leader - follow his orders. In a clan game there is no time to be trying new things and doing your own thing! You do your own thing and you WILL die and the squad will be weaker for it. Currently we have 2 x 4 man squads, let me translate that for everyone: TWO SQUADS OF FOUR MEMBERS EACH. A squad by it's very definition is a team and as such needs to behave as a team. Each member of the squad has a role to play and if they don't fulfil their role the squad breaks down. I know that Bravo has not had much time playing together on public servers but that is something that Skouperd will have to sort out.

After Thursday's game against Crak I would like to try something different and swap myself and StuKKenD around. I will take control of Bravo and Krygorian (God help us all) will take control of Alpha.

My thinking for this is simple, I have years of experience in being a squad leader in BF2 and even though BC2 is totally different with regards to being able to spawn on any member of the squad, the principles remain the same. The squad leader is a DICK (ask anyone who has been in my squad over the years)! I demand a certain level of commitment from my squad members and more importantly... TRUST! Trust that your SL will get the job done, trust your squad mates to do their jobs and trust the other squad to get on with their job.

Last night against BFB, I constantly found myself looking at what Bravo was doing and thinking "WHAT THE FUCK"! Bravo was piss poor and that's all there is to that.

I am not laying the blame at Bravos feet for the loss because we already know that Alpha has more experience together, I am simply trying to identify problems and try to find solutions to them.


I think for Thursday's game:

Alpha will go for C with a buggy

Bravo will take the APC to A - heavy AT presence will be required.

Once we have those two points, dig in and defend. NO LONE WOLF KAMAKAZI type crap from anyone please! Find a good hole and dig in.

CraK are are COD clan and they are good at running and gunning, they also have some decent sniper skills. Where we should have the advantage is that we are all Battlefield players and SHOULD have more patience and understanding of tactical advantages and disadvantages in the game.

Once we have C I will take the UAV, so someone else will need to be a medic from Alpha squad (XennoX or Ding).

Alpha need to CONTROL A, don't just take the flag, own the flag! When you have cleared out the enemy, position yourselves in such a way as to make it difficult for them to get near you. Keep close together but not bunched up!

If we can play this opening move right, I have every bit of faith that we will win this game!


To echo what Skouperd already said, COMMUNICATION is key! That doesn't mean we need idle chit chat but focused information.

Let's work on this together and build up a team that will strike fear into the hearts of others!

[Skouperd]

I am happy with your plan Chaos, and no, Bravo's screw is not just your fault, it is mine as well.

Bravo we will own flag "A".

Stukkend / SloDaz / Murgs, what time can we get on a server and just play in a squad a bit? I would really like us to play a better game come Thursday than what we've done yesterday.

Stukkend, thank you for taking up medic duties. Get a gun that you are comfortable with, and learn it please. I like the first gun on the list, it is a really cool and efficient gun. Some people prefer the 3rd one.

If we are to take the APC to A, then we need to think carefully, because having just one engineer is not enough. We need at least 2 engineers that can not only fix the APC but also shoot off rockets to the enemy APC. If you hit the enemy APC with 2 rockets, and our APC, no ways can they keep on repairing it. I will take one engineer spot, but that means we need another person that could act as the driver. When we are in the APC we proberbly don't need a medic YET, but we do need a recon, assault (to rearm the sniper) and 2 engineers.

Slodaz opted for recon duty, which means that he needs to ensure there are enough sensor mines on "A".
Murgs, you need to spawn assualt and NEVER be more than a couple of metres away from Slodaz. It is your job to ensure that Slodaz NEVER runs out of sensors.
Stukkend, when we take the APC the first time round, can I ask if you could please spawn Engineer as well. When you die, and the other APC is taken out, then please spawn Medic.
I will spawn Engineer.

Slodaz / Murgs, if Stukkend and me are the engineers, keeping the APC alive, then one of you two need to be the driver of the APC, and one needs to be the main gunner. Who ever is the driver, need to have the additional weapon perked turned on. Whoever is the main gunner, need to have close proximity turned on. When we take flag A, then I will take over driving duties, Dazzie and Murgs can jump out, Dazzie is to secure a spawn point for us and keep the sensor mines alight. Murgs need to support Slodaz at all costs.

Stukkend and myself will keep the APC / Protect the APC and provide cover fire for you two. When it becomes an infantry fight, Stukkend, you spawn medic, I will spawn either medic / assault or recon depending on what we need. Slodaz, when it becomes a infantry fight, your main objective is sensors and securing a spawn point. Stukkend, your objective is to keep everybody alive, starting with Slodaz being the most important guy, then murgs, then myself. I will keep you alive.

Murgs, in an infantry fight, it is your job to kill the enemy. Stukkend and me will provide support.

[ChaosADPumpkinHead]

Great ideas there Skouperd! Only one MAJOR concern: What about the APC when it becomes an infantry battle? You need to keep that APC at ALL times! In both the games we've played so far, we've allowed them to steal our APC, this can not happen!


An old saying from Chuckstar when he was commanding our BF2 team: Use EVERYTHING that the map gives us. To leave the APC out of the equation would be a very bad idea.

[Skouperd]

Agreed, I was refering to the point in the battle in which the APC wait to respawn. But point taken. When the APC do get destroyed, I will make it my duty to go and collect it again in the base.