Back to the Future: Competitive Team discussion

[Paul]

So I am not an admin and I am not captain of any team (well we don't have any teams)

But I thought we should kick of a discussion sooner rather than later for any future leagues be it BC2 or BF3 or whatever. I am talking about a team that wants to play relatively competitively, where it is just a bit more formal than what we have currently been doing.

Some points I think we need to discuss are

- How to chose a team i.e. how do players initially get chosen
- Terms and conditions for being in the team e.g. Commit to 1 practise a week, participate in strategy talks etc
- Criteria for being dropped from the team or how to get into the team

I think if we leave this until a league or comp is about to start then we will be in the same situation as the last comp. I don't know if I am stepping on toes or punching above my weight so if the powers that be feel this is not appropriate then please delete this thread.

I also don't want this to be all FiB'y where it will cause friction or take the fun out of it, we just need to be a little more serious and a bit more prepared

[Stu]

Rather sooner than latter commend the initiative.

- How to chose a team i.e. how do players initially get chosen

Like any other sporting team it should be approached with tri-outs these can be had with the implementation of a few pre-season friendlies. Players that join up are then put into a Pool we can have internal 4v4 matches and friendlies all players who consider themselves eligible to play enters this and plays a number of games and then the selection should take place.

It is a fine line to walk on but if we want a team to succeed we need to have the strongest players possible from a statistical and teamwork point of view. There is no point in carrying other players KDR in clannies we will be taking two steps forward and three steps backwards.

- Terms and conditions for being in the team e.g. Commit to 1 practise a week, participate in strategy talks etc

Agreed, if any players are going to play on a competitive level commitment is needed and this criteria has to be met.

- Criteria for being dropped from the team or how to get into the team

A number of factors should be considered, we have a lot of professionals who are required to be on-call out the office on trips. We all don't sit at a desk like Paul and throw our p00 around.
We all have life issues that affect us from time to time. So many facets have to be considered but generally it should be based on participation, performance from based on statistical information. We have a number of members who love statistical evaluation and this can be used to monitor performance from a team perspective and individual perspective.

As has previously been discussed we all grown-ups so when selected schweet when not not up to scratch so be it at least [grrr] is represented by machines!

That's how I see it anyhoo....

[Hubris]

Ic3nFl4me, I agree with you 100%. I like your ideas for weekly practices and a commitment to statistical analysis of players. Bear in mind though, BF3 will be out this year and it will take some time before we have enough stats to really start being able to pick people apart - because someone might have just picked up the game etc etc. In any case, you're spot on, we should develop a data model and basic steps for people to follow to feed their info into a shared Excel file or something. That way when the first competition comes around, interpreting statistics is a lot clearer and the process is accepted throughout the clan.

If I may, I would like to suggest some things for the training...

We have to approach BF3 like a completely new game, which it is, but some will argue it's like any other Battlefield. I believe Grrr should be doing "explore" and "exploit" sessions with as many people as possible, definitely those who want to play first team. In explore sessions, we should test weapons, tricks and ideas - where we encourage creativity and a little fooling around. In exploit sessions, we should methodically check map boundaries, lines of sight and interest areas for exploitable situations - by thinking both strategically and tactically. Where strategic refers to an approach to a map or game mode at the team level; and where tactical refers to an approach to a particular weapon or circumstance. Then COMMUNICATE those insights to the team.

Once we have a pool of players who are committed to the terms of playing top game, trials have to begin to separate your first and second string players. This should only be a preliminary draft to facilitate 1st v 2nd clan format matches on separate team speak channels. We have to simulate clan game conditions as much as possible by playing internally and using the good will we have with other clans to secure a schedule of pre-Competition inter clan matches. I suggest a minimum of five games; where we play three tough and two medium games. We have eat, drink and sleep tickets and pwn.

The squad captains should take ownership of developing the players in their squads and in others by communicating constructive criticism and honest appraisal of their perception of how they play with respect to the agreed game plan. They should help with stats data collection and processing, obtaining in-depth "aspect expert" advice from other players and facilitating squad/team sessions on public servers. These public sessions should take place at least once a week and squad captains must keep the focus of players constantly on improving their game and playing smart.

In summary, we need:


• A culture of getting games early and building skills
  
• Committed players
• Explore sessions
• Exploit sessions
• Public sessions
• 1st v 2nd matches and trials
• Minimum 5 inter clan matches pre-tournament
• Active strategy and tactics debates on forums
• Communication of insights
• Honest and constructive criticism
• Team skills training from aspect experts
• Recruitment, if necessary
  

I believe the moral of the story is to identify what it is you should do, who should do it, then repeat your task over and over and over whilst managing your talent until you're unstoppable.

FML, this list command defeats me.

[Megageth]

I think the clan should vote for a captain for a period, say 6 months. The captain then gets those who can commit to fixed times to practice regularly and picks teams for leagues/clan matches.

A point that I feel has been ignored since BC2 emerged is that outside of leagues, there seem to have been very few friendly matches.
If we are to contend then I believe we should be looking at 1 prac during the week and a friendly every Sunday. Perhaps that formula can be applied to the first 3 weeks of every month so that players dont burn out.

Although I did not play in the last league I really felt that Paul did an excellent job from following on the forum. I was also extremely impressed with Daz in the previous league. We have no shortage of good captains.

I dont feel that we should have fixed criteria for making the team. I think that we should trust in the captain to select those who are the most committed, available and suitable for the roles required.

I personally would love to be part of the team, sadly for me that will at best be coming in off the reserve bench when I am available.
One of my goals for this clan has always been to get 2 teams going. I believe that with 2 teams practicing regularly you can become really competitive whilst enjoying gaming. Hopefully when BF3 arrives, we will have a few more players available.
More blah blah blah and some wadda wadda to finish off.

[NiteShade]

Sorry I haven't posted sooner! I had a very busy weekend. I will post my thoughts when I get home tonight!

[Paul]

Keep them coming! Some good ideas even from Ninja boy

[NiteShade]

Firstly, I think we need to look at how many people plan on buying BF3 as I assume that will be our next competitive game. I'm pretty sure after this 4vs4 comp that we'll be seeing the end of competitive BC2 leagues. Our clan isn't huge and its not like we have a gazillion players that will really be competing for top spots.

We have the following as members and my interpretation of their BC2 gaming of late (note: I'm not online everyday and so may not see everyone play):
Baseline - doesn't play
Dragonne - plays regularly
Flycatchr - plays regularly
Geth - plays bc2 when not in some forren country
gr@v1ty - haven't seen him in ages... hasn't even been on the forum since Nov 19 2010.
Hubris - plays daily i think
Ic3nFl4me - just got back into the swing of things (hurray!)
Jackal-GI - plays occasionally (more regular of late)
L3pr3c4un - hasn't played in awhile
NiteShade - plays regularly
NoMaD - plays daily i think
Onyx - plays occasionally, but not competitively
Paul - plays regularly
Phatso - hasn't played all that much
pmurgs - used to play regularly, but haven't seen on pubs as of late
Scorpyon - lives in Australia
Skouperd - hasn't played lately
SlipperyDuck - plays daily i think
SloDaz - plays regularly
Th0r_23 - plays occasionally
Voetsek-Mikey - plays regularly
[grrr]s3xy_j0nny - plays regularly

So if you count the "plays regularly or daily", we have 12 'active' members involved with BC2. That is not even enough people to field 2 teams. In fact, its good for 1 team with 4 reserves. Lets assume these 12 people also buy BF3 are interested in competitive play. (we'll also most likely see Lep and Phats get in on the BF3 action too.) Also, bear in mind that a couple of the fore-mentioned 14 ppl have jobs that require them to travel or work shifts or, as we all know & have been there, have RL stuff that comes up.

In my opinion (and this comes from trying to captain various COD teams within grrr), the first criteria should be availability... being able to commit to regular practice, friendly matches and of course clannies. I know this is difficult because a few of our best players have time constraints, but hear me out. I think we can all agree that a squad that plays together regularly and can 'gel' makes a huge difference in clannies. Why do you think I kept Lee, Jono, Hubris and NoMaD in one team for the 4vs4? Not only are they all great players in their own right, but their experience of playing together makes them THAT much better. I wanted a team to represent grrr that has a real, strong chance of kicking ass. The other 2 teams I tried to divide up equally in terms of kit strength, etc...

Anyhow, back to the topic. After availability we should look at individual player strength to make up our 'main 8 players'. Sure, there will be times where a reserve might be better suited for a role in a particular map strat and they would then be substituted in. However, I am not quite sure I like the idea of statistical analysis on each player. That to me sounds a bit too 'FiB-ish' for my liking and as previously posted - difficult to do with a new game. I rather like Geth's idea of democratically electing a BF captain and having them be the responsible party for choosing the appropriate players. At this point, we know each others' game play quite well and can make an informed decision. I would hope that we are all adult enough to respect a decision made by the Captain and support him/her. Geth mentioned 6 month stints for a Captain, but my idea would be to hire one Captain for the entire League irregardless of time. Consistency is key, but we can discuss that later.

What I definitely agree with is the in-depth practices. We've done this before and its worked wonders. You all know I've been a big supporter of naming places on the maps as it facilitates quick, concise TS chats and helps eliminate non-essential chatter and confusion. Also, I've personally benefited in-game from knowing great defensive/attack positions, quick & sneaky routes to flags, etc... Learning from each other and getting positive criticism can only make us all better gamers.

[Paul]

I know that using stats might sound FiB'ish but that wouldn't be the only criteria, it would just be one thing to help the captain choose a team. The captain could look at some one who has the worst stats but thinks they play a pivotal role.

Also I agree, availability is of utmost importance, that is why I say we need a terms an conditions. If you even think you can't commit then rather don't sign up.

The next steps I think is to draw up a formal T & C that can be revised and changed. We have some valuable input here so I think we can start with that.

[Hubris]

I really like this discussion, good points raised here and good to get some facts on the table. I think it's pretty clear we need to think about recruitment if were going to field two teams... I think the timing suits this approach because there is a good few months now before BF3 to finalise ts&cs, practice schedules and players. Again, its up to clan leadership because getting the right people is not a simple, quick or easy process.

Fully agree with Paul, use stats as supplementary decision making data - not primary. I think the really clever guys in the clan need to get together one night and just grind out a way forward with respect to data collection, collation and analysis. I think it would be great to run a database linked to the site so everyone can upload their stats and have a view of each others stats. Lee is that possible?

Based off preliminary analysis from BC2, we can already start to get a feel for where people stand in terms of skill, experience and availability. That preliminary team view should inform clan leadership with respect to driving recruitment or not.

[SlipperyDuck]

I'll look into a BC2 stats add-on for us so long - thanks fer the suggestion Hubris - It's always been "in my head" but never reached execution. I know we had a BF2 one many moons ago...time to update. (too late )