Herro gents, sorry if posting in PryFart isn't the right place but I don't really want this on the public forum.
I need advice from you gentleman (and ladies) and I need to rant, see this from someone else's perspective and get an objective opinion. I don't really have anyone else I can talk to who'll have any empathy.
Fair warning, wall of text incoming.
I'm the youngest guy in the clan (I think?) so I'm relatively inexperienced in 'life' (no I don't wan't a sex talk) and I desperately need advice from people who's been there, done that, got the t-shirts.
Straight out of school I started working, I knew my parents wouldn't be able to sustain me or pay for university so I got the first job I could. Which was some editing bullshit that paid okay, after that it was IT support and bartending and a bunch of other stuff. I was making plans to go to CPUT (would borrow the money) and try to bartend or waiter or something in my spare time for food and some rent for my parents.
However at the end of 2012 the company I'm at now employed me as an Operator, great salary for a 19/20 year old kid, only catch was I had to work 7 days a week. The only day I had off was Christmas day 2012. Initially this was from home and initially I didn't have a problem with it, I was just happy I could give my mom enough cash to support my feeding frenzy habits and something extra. The rest I saved.
February last year the company got offices at Techno Park and I moved to Stellenbosch, still working 7 days a week (at least I could work weekends from home). In April the company finally employed another operator and we started working shifts, glory be I had every second weekend off! Only now on my working weekend I had to be at the office. Cool, I didn't mind, I had a weekend off! Yay!
Things were going pretty well, my bosses had me do a certification, which they would pay for if I pass (what a bunch of great guys) I took the opportunity with both hands (even though the subject matter didn't interest me much) and got my certification. I was working hard as a demon, full of loyalty to my company. They were good to me, so I decided to be good to them.
Things weren't always easy with the shifts, I'd be tired a lot, I'd be stressed out but I figured it'd be all worth it.
I'd work the morning shift (5am - 1pm) but I would stay another two hours, willing to take care of any emergencies or quickly look at the database or write a script for my boss. (SQL) Sometimes I left the same time as the other operator (7pm). I was rewarded with a raise in August and the bosses kept dangling the carrot of "becoming a developer" in front of my face
Since then I've started doing a lot of other work for them that's not in my official description, this includes some DBA work, development, analysis...
These days I'm sick and tired, even the prospect of becoming a developer here isn't enough to motivate me. I'm already doing development for them (I have deadlines, that's inbetween all my other work) which forces me to work overtime (which I don't get paid) which I didn't mind at the start, but then I had a sense of loyalty towards them, I wanted to give the company my best.
I know that if I become a developer it would be much of the same shit, just with a bigger paycheck and one more weekend off. I can't help but ask my self what is the point of that. I I'm burning myself out, or I've already burnt myself out because I have no motivation anymore.
My social life is almost non-existant, I'm almost always tired and drained, and if I do go out I tend to feel horrible the next day. I'm still damn young, I want to live my life. I want to do crazy things, I want to see the world. I want to climb damned table mountain with my colleague, but I can't because I'm working this weekend.
On top of all this I'm a type 1 diabetic, which means I have to stay active and I have to stay healthy. It's a must for everyone, but it's a must, must for me. I have no issue with working hard, but I want to like what I do. I'm an aspiring software dev and a creative guy, I want to use my brain to create and solve problems. Not develop dreary financial bullshit.
I'm always afraid of coming off as a caffeine,adrenaline filled crazy shite - which I am don't get me wrong - but all I am lately is tired and generally unhappy.
Long story short: I've been thinking of giving notice at my company in May/June and starting my own thing with a friend of mine who is an excellent developer. Then I want to see if it's possible for me to go to Europe next year for a few months or a year to see the world.
/rant /walloftext
The big wahooey - need some advice
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Cat Nipples
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- Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:11 pm
Short and sweet advice, ALWAYS do what is best for you. Remember a job is a partnership, they aren't doing you a favour , you are doing each other a favour as soon as one side starts taking more than they give then there is trouble and you either need to remedy it at the work place or find another job.
I am very cautious by nature so if I was you I wouldn't quit and start with the friend I would do one of the following
1. Have a talk, a really tough talk, maybe one of the most difficult things to do, with you boss, spell out clear what you expect from them interms of pay and work hours etc. If things don't improve then you find another job
2.Don't pass start, go directly to finding another job, start looking now and give your boss a big fuck you (not literally) when you find better work
3. Start off part time with your friend, once you see it is viable then quit and do it full time
S.A. has fantastic labour laws, search for basic employment act and make sure your boss is aware of where they are transgressing. I think the work week is 45 hours, after that it is extra pay of off time. You should get 10-15 days minimum leave
I was in exactly the same position as you, I had to pay for my varsity, I worked as a receptionist at Virgin Active, I sold second hand CD's at a flee market, I folded bank statements at FNB and put them in envelopes to be posted and a couple other menial jobs. In my 3rd year of varsity I landed a "part-time" developer gig that paid a ton (at the time) compared to what I was earning so I took it and stayed there for 5 years, that a was 3 years too much.
In those 5 years, I had very little support, no development and my salary didn't keep pace with inflation. So after 5 years I HAD to found another job with less salary and basically start over again. I had not choice too otherwise my career would come to a dead end.
All in all, do what you think is best for YOU, no one else is going to look after you
I am very cautious by nature so if I was you I wouldn't quit and start with the friend I would do one of the following
1. Have a talk, a really tough talk, maybe one of the most difficult things to do, with you boss, spell out clear what you expect from them interms of pay and work hours etc. If things don't improve then you find another job
2.Don't pass start, go directly to finding another job, start looking now and give your boss a big fuck you (not literally) when you find better work
3. Start off part time with your friend, once you see it is viable then quit and do it full time
S.A. has fantastic labour laws, search for basic employment act and make sure your boss is aware of where they are transgressing. I think the work week is 45 hours, after that it is extra pay of off time. You should get 10-15 days minimum leave
I was in exactly the same position as you, I had to pay for my varsity, I worked as a receptionist at Virgin Active, I sold second hand CD's at a flee market, I folded bank statements at FNB and put them in envelopes to be posted and a couple other menial jobs. In my 3rd year of varsity I landed a "part-time" developer gig that paid a ton (at the time) compared to what I was earning so I took it and stayed there for 5 years, that a was 3 years too much.
In those 5 years, I had very little support, no development and my salary didn't keep pace with inflation. So after 5 years I HAD to found another job with less salary and basically start over again. I had not choice too otherwise my career would come to a dead end.
All in all, do what you think is best for YOU, no one else is going to look after you
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Cat Nipples
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:11 pm
Thanks for the advice Paul, it's appreciated.
I've done two part time projects with my partner already. In two months I almost made four months salary (working part time). I'm figuring that if we take this risk and do it full-time we could either score big or fail, and in the end I can just pick myself up and start over. BUT you make a good point and that is one thing I am considering as well, to stay in it part time and rather find myself another job.
Even if they pay me more, I doubt it'll matter, I hate this work. Operations is pile of steaming shite and the development (which they are calling valuable experience) is pretty much basic web development with some backend. I want to learn new things, I want to push myself and I want to feel good about doing it. I tried using more intricate code and cooler ways of doing things in my projects at work, but there isn't really much scope for it and the boss + lead dev has a "my way or the highway" attitude regarding that.
Thanks for the advice and tips, much appreciated.
"All in all, do what you think is best for YOU, no one else is going to look after you"
+1 million
I've done two part time projects with my partner already. In two months I almost made four months salary (working part time). I'm figuring that if we take this risk and do it full-time we could either score big or fail, and in the end I can just pick myself up and start over. BUT you make a good point and that is one thing I am considering as well, to stay in it part time and rather find myself another job.
Even if they pay me more, I doubt it'll matter, I hate this work. Operations is pile of steaming shite and the development (which they are calling valuable experience) is pretty much basic web development with some backend. I want to learn new things, I want to push myself and I want to feel good about doing it. I tried using more intricate code and cooler ways of doing things in my projects at work, but there isn't really much scope for it and the boss + lead dev has a "my way or the highway" attitude regarding that.
Thanks for the advice and tips, much appreciated.
"All in all, do what you think is best for YOU, no one else is going to look after you"
+1 million
hi fire
I worked for my dad as soon as I left university (which he paid for) in a maintenance position. I already at that time had my own paintball gig on his property (my boets and I where partners). every cent I inherited and or got for my 21st I put into buying equipment for the paintball range. I did not get on very well with my fathers partner and I was privy to the financial issues surrounding the debt from that business. (the writing was on the wall) My dad also had another business that my mom was almost running and it was in her name. He passed away and the shit hit the fan with the creditors. they took what they could and it was a sad time, BUT I had already resigned and started another paintball range with my brother. somehow there was not enough money in the paintball for the two of use, his expenses where many times more than mine - wife, car, rent. I stayed ON the paintball range, had a car that was payed for and sometimes I was able to help with my fiance's rent. The paintball eventually paid for my wedding ( with many deals and friends helping).
My point about starting on your own (or with a partner) is that you HAVE to start with as few overheads as possible. you don't need an office, or flashy car or new house. If you are in fact able to stay with you parents, then explain to them the plans, keep talking to them about you plans, asking their advice, keep them abreast of your financial situation. this isn't only for their peace of mind, but also to keep you motivated and accountable.
I would also strongly suggest getting a very thorough agreement between you and your friend, regardless of how part time you two might be working. I didn't really have this in place with my brothers, but we managed to work out all our issues, both because we are honest and because we knew the split when who did what work.
The hours you have been working are strictly reserved for upper management and owners. it sounds like you have not been remunerated for your worth. do as Paul says - talk to your bosses, and keep the moral high ground.
OHH and one last thing - you will never know until you try, and you may live your life regretting not having taken the plunge. ask yourself what will you regret more? and you will also find that almost ALL the billionaires in the world have had a business fail - that's how they have learnt.
I worked for my dad as soon as I left university (which he paid for) in a maintenance position. I already at that time had my own paintball gig on his property (my boets and I where partners). every cent I inherited and or got for my 21st I put into buying equipment for the paintball range. I did not get on very well with my fathers partner and I was privy to the financial issues surrounding the debt from that business. (the writing was on the wall) My dad also had another business that my mom was almost running and it was in her name. He passed away and the shit hit the fan with the creditors. they took what they could and it was a sad time, BUT I had already resigned and started another paintball range with my brother. somehow there was not enough money in the paintball for the two of use, his expenses where many times more than mine - wife, car, rent. I stayed ON the paintball range, had a car that was payed for and sometimes I was able to help with my fiance's rent. The paintball eventually paid for my wedding ( with many deals and friends helping).
My point about starting on your own (or with a partner) is that you HAVE to start with as few overheads as possible. you don't need an office, or flashy car or new house. If you are in fact able to stay with you parents, then explain to them the plans, keep talking to them about you plans, asking their advice, keep them abreast of your financial situation. this isn't only for their peace of mind, but also to keep you motivated and accountable.
I would also strongly suggest getting a very thorough agreement between you and your friend, regardless of how part time you two might be working. I didn't really have this in place with my brothers, but we managed to work out all our issues, both because we are honest and because we knew the split when who did what work.
The hours you have been working are strictly reserved for upper management and owners. it sounds like you have not been remunerated for your worth. do as Paul says - talk to your bosses, and keep the moral high ground.
OHH and one last thing - you will never know until you try, and you may live your life regretting not having taken the plunge. ask yourself what will you regret more? and you will also find that almost ALL the billionaires in the world have had a business fail - that's how they have learnt.
I often get asked why I didn't get into the aeronautical field, I could have, but I do have a serious amount of freedom, even though there are periods of extreme hard work. I am sometimes a lazy bugger, and that really is my only regret in having my own business. there are times I know I could have worked harder but that is something I am working on.
Good advice above.
Also remember starting your own thing is actually more stressful and much harder work.
The rewards are greater too as a balance.
Ultimately thare are two types of people.
People who live to work.
People who work to live.
You know which you are.
But in both cases, doing what you have an interest in is far more important than doing something because it will net you a lot of cash.
Follow the interest and the passion and the cash will come.
Also remember starting your own thing is actually more stressful and much harder work.
The rewards are greater too as a balance.
Ultimately thare are two types of people.
People who live to work.
People who work to live.
You know which you are.
But in both cases, doing what you have an interest in is far more important than doing something because it will net you a lot of cash.
Follow the interest and the passion and the cash will come.
Lots of good advice here, there isnät much I can add.
I would say though, if you have a hankering to travel, you should definitely do so. I had a nowhere job before I left SA and bugger all qualifications. I went to Europe, spent a few months on a Kibbutz, ended up in the UK working in a pub. from there I was able to get a job in the city that had prospects. A bit of on the job training and a couple of company moves and I was able to move back to SA in a far better position with that all invaluable "International Experience".
Do what you feel. Don't waste your youth, you only get one chance at it. And (this may sound harsh but I'm sure she'd agree with me), don't live your life for your mom. Help her out when you can, but you have to make your own life. You mother's biggest regret would be holding you back from your own dreams.
Your situation is not unique. You are asking the right questions. Now you need to make the right decisions. For yourself.
Good luck mate, it's gonna be fun
I would say though, if you have a hankering to travel, you should definitely do so. I had a nowhere job before I left SA and bugger all qualifications. I went to Europe, spent a few months on a Kibbutz, ended up in the UK working in a pub. from there I was able to get a job in the city that had prospects. A bit of on the job training and a couple of company moves and I was able to move back to SA in a far better position with that all invaluable "International Experience".
Do what you feel. Don't waste your youth, you only get one chance at it. And (this may sound harsh but I'm sure she'd agree with me), don't live your life for your mom. Help her out when you can, but you have to make your own life. You mother's biggest regret would be holding you back from your own dreams.
Your situation is not unique. You are asking the right questions. Now you need to make the right decisions. For yourself.
Good luck mate, it's gonna be fun
Yeah good advice already. I will repeat some of the points that I believe require emphasis.
1. You and only you truly cares about your career and free time. Your boss will pay you the least he can get away with and work you as many hours as he can. You should approach him calmly and professionally if you are unhappy with work conditions.
2. You should send out your cv on a constant basis. You can always use new offers to better negotiate your current job if you dont want to move.
3. Never quit until you have another job/opportunity lined up.
4. Life is short, dont make excuses for not doing what you want to do, rather spend the energy finding a way to do it.
5. If you ever enter into a partnership with a friend/family, get the partnership down in writing. You will both enter with the best of intentions but misunderstandings and misconceptions are the norm and unless you have it down on paper it will ruin the business and the friendship.
6. Everyone is on their own journey, dont look at others and think you need to copy or conform. Follow your instincts, obey your thirst, blah blah.
I met a Malawian woodcutter who once told me: Just do what you do and know that its right.
Lots of good advice from some guys who are long in the tooth but dont overthink it and dont stress, just do whats right for you.
^Thats me. 38, no clue.
1. You and only you truly cares about your career and free time. Your boss will pay you the least he can get away with and work you as many hours as he can. You should approach him calmly and professionally if you are unhappy with work conditions.
2. You should send out your cv on a constant basis. You can always use new offers to better negotiate your current job if you dont want to move.
3. Never quit until you have another job/opportunity lined up.
4. Life is short, dont make excuses for not doing what you want to do, rather spend the energy finding a way to do it.
5. If you ever enter into a partnership with a friend/family, get the partnership down in writing. You will both enter with the best of intentions but misunderstandings and misconceptions are the norm and unless you have it down on paper it will ruin the business and the friendship.
6. Everyone is on their own journey, dont look at others and think you need to copy or conform. Follow your instincts, obey your thirst, blah blah.
I met a Malawian woodcutter who once told me: Just do what you do and know that its right.
Lots of good advice from some guys who are long in the tooth but dont overthink it and dont stress, just do whats right for you.
The most interesting people I know didn't know at 22 what they wanted to do with their lives. Some of the most interesting 40-year-olds I know still don't.
^Thats me. 38, no clue.
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Cat Nipples
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RussianElite.
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