Resignation

[SlipperyDuck]

I want you to put this into perspective so that you can understand the WTF reaction here.
I’m going to write the explanation of all of this here as an analogy, so bare with me:

There is an 8 man table where all the guests are sitting having fun talking, drinking being merry.
It’s a Friday night and everyone is in a good mood. Everyone is happy to be there amongst friends ready to enjoy the evening. A game of Trivial Pursuit is put on the table and everyone decides to team into two teams of four.
The game begins and everyone is having fun, but it seems Fred is sitting on the wrong side of the table, if he could just swop with Maroline, they could play in their teams sitting on the correct side of the table. Maroline asks politely to swop with Fred and they swop over.
Fred then becomes quiet and eventually leaves the room without any explanation.
While everyone is wondering why he left, there was no explanation and for all they knew he simply went to the toilet, so they decided to continue the game. Eventually, they finish at which point people note that they still have not seen Fred. This is when Maroline and Craig go look for him to talk about it. Fred explains that he was upset that he had to change sides of the table. At this point Maroline and Craig apologies to Fred even though it’s difficult to comprehend why this was upsetting to him.

Several weeks later, Freds girlfriend announces that they will no longer be friends with anyone and will no longer see them again.
It turns out that it is all because Fred had to change sides of the table that night.

Does it seem fair that Fred AND his girlfriend need to sever all ties to this group of friends over which side of the Table that Fred sat on during an evening of fun and entertainment with friends?

Anyway, I thought an analogy would be required here, since things do not compute.

[Voetsek-Mikey]

No Ways.


Onny Please take your time and think hard.

As for me I would hate it if we loose one of the legends that makes Grrr what it is today.

And Mark/U2M is as much part of Grrr as anyone here. Dis Crap.

So i will leave the talking to you guys/girls. I'm not someone that says a lot on the forums, But i can and will crack skulls if needed.


I will be back playing very soon.

[Onyx]

Mark requested me to post this on his behalf:

Dear Grrr members and friends.
I say friends because I have always allowed you that special place that you so dearly deserve in my angel’s heart and have become very fond of some of you. And no, not in the way some of you would think.

You may not realize this but Odette for a long time had only one freedom and that was you guys.

I perhaps know a whole lot more about a few of you,and this I might add, perhaps more than what you might care to admit, even you are my friends by default and by choice because Odette sees you as dear friends. Yes you know who you are.

It is with great dismay that I read your thread tonight. Perhaps the main reason for this sadness being the many assumptions and misunderstandings, some perhaps said without proper thought.

Perhaps some back ground if I may in an attempt for me to shed light on happenings over the last year:

Odette is a real angel and I developed this opinion of you guys because of Odette’s association with you, damn I think you are all extremely special, some more than others, yes I do have my favorites.

I think the point here is I would give my front teeth to be a Grrr member, however I was a member of a clan once that you guys see as a friendly clan and because I did not want any animosity creeping into a long standing clan friendship I decided to, even if I was asked too, not accept membership, this as it is the right thing to do I believe, correctly or not that’s my way of doing the right thing. I shared this with Odette and Fly at the time and then never spoke about it again. I was then asked to apply for membership to this great clan and sadly had to refuse because of my decision.

This in itself was a very difficult choice as I did not want anyone to think badly of me or take my not accepting the invitation as a slap in the face, but more importantly I would be putting myself in a position of always being on the sideline but having to find a way to support and encourage Odette’s participation because of how important you guys are to her.

I have certain views on things and some may say incorrectly so, but that’s me. I could choose to take quotes and respond to each of the “nasty things” that have been said or just simply ignore them for what they are, views of others either correct or not. If I do highlight some, then this only for the purpose of me calling a spade a spade and not intended to create a mudslinging match.

What I would like (and I hope you guys will afford me this long winded opportunity), is to perhaps try and set the record straight from my point of view. This even with me not being a member of your clan and you actually owing me nothing.

But please remember that I am a life partner of one of your members and that whether we like it or not this will not change. But what we can do is attempt to make right by the person who has clearly been hurt the most here for many reasons, to many to mention. How we do that will depend on various, I may touch on a few but at the end of the day I can only be the least so far and then someone else will have to carry the rest of the load.

As I said earlier you guys for a long time and perhaps longer than you realize stood in as freedom for Odette.

This and Odette’s enjoyment of being part of a team in the BF2 environment and having fun brought us together.

A part of my life I am extremely grateful for and you guys then perhaps understand that gaming together, especially a game we would both enjoy is something Odette and I really cherish and we can sometimes have some really awesome fun even when our team is getting pooned, the point is we are one of the few couples that enjoy gaming and gaming together in the same game to boot.

This said there are also times that one plays a game on your own or when you feel like a change and game with others or because you are part of a team have no choice but to not play together. There are times we have to make sacrifices and try and do what the other would like to do.

And along came Lotro, I tried because I wanted to game with you guys, I wanted Odette gaming with you guys and I wanted to game with Odette too and just could not.

Odette tried but was torn between you guys and our time together and our gaming time together, and yes I admit I am very jealous of, wouldn’t you be?
I asked if there had been a platform for discussion on moving on to a new game for a very simple reason, perhaps Odette could use that platform (as I could not, not being a member), too and as angelic as possible perhaps suggest a little leeway and you guys maybe once a week perhaps join us so that we all could have a game or two of BFBC2 together, Odette, the clan and me yes because I actually really enjoy playing with you guys (most of the time that is, )with this accommodating our position of you guys wanting to play together, us wanting to also and so keep a happy balance. Sadly Odette said no so that suggestion could not be put on the table for some consideration as remember Odette does not like any confrontation not even the likes of making a suggestion that would in any way seem to go against any of your wishes.

And this perhaps when I felt that I perhaps held the wrong view of the clan, as it seemed to me that perhaps because I felt Odette to be your guys family, would be considered and offered a little freedom or platform to view her opinion without having to by her view, offend any and perhaps be viewed to be spoiling the fun or going against popular direction. I suppose that type of sensitivity to a person in a clan a pipe dream.

I am sure it was brought to the attention of some, what surprised me then is that nothing was done to try create that platform, anyways this and a few other times that I thought some people had shown a bit of selfishness took me to a point where I felt that I was not really welcome.

I did not feel part enough of the group to feel comfortable spending a weekend away with the group as we had moved on in different directions from an interest point of view.

I however offered to drop Odette of for the weekend and collect her again after but Odette decided not to go without me.

Sheri so kindly agreed to start a thread on a BFBC2 hour or two a week for those other players, yes me and Odette and guess what no one even bothered to answer, this to me was perhaps another indication that those in the minority did not mean much to the others.

Then the last of many incidents, some that I do not care to elaborate on as it may seem frivolous, then broke the camel’s back for me, that being the incident that Jarrod has described from his point of view.

Sadly those who could shed light on what happened and give insight into what happened and all the circumstances around said are all silent. I will not try and explain myself and my choices made subsequent as it has been done, the circumstances were explained and nothing done, sadly it has not been shared with the clan in the correct light and a shame as it could make you guys even more awesome.

I in my heart I know that what happened was not correct for many reasons but as those who really know and understand have chosen not to come forward, not even for a friend,Odette, I will not discuss the matter for the simple reason I am not going to make this any worse, save to say that Jarrod I am saddened at your use of your point of view for seemingly your own goal, I know what was said to me by the one person who apologized, this person not having to by the way, but he did and what a kind gentle who I would take a bullet for any day might I add, but he did not apologize on anyone’s behalf except his own as he saw the circumstances.Shame on you for claiming that he apologized on your and the clan’s behalf.

I have chosen to not join you guys in mumble for a very simple reason, I am not in your way then and you do not need to treat me in any special way, also so that I can avoid ever having to work with being treated that way again, but this has had a price.

I have allowed another’s selfish way to influence something very dear to me (and please, do not use the, “we needed the practice” excuse to justify your actions as you and I both know that’s not the truth), my gaming time with Odette and Odette’s freedom with regards her friends. I should have spoken up about these things but as you so rightfully point out Jarrod, I am not a clan member.

Lee bud, I would like to say to you that I understand where your comments came from and would like you to know that I cannot be upset as I understand where that came from and I think you are one of the most awesome people I know.

Anyways, for those who bothered, thank you for the time afforded me and this long winded nothing, perhaps in some way, some, if they bothered can read between the lines and make something of my response, and with me trying to not point fingers, for Odette’s sake.

Whatever comes from this is to be seen, what I hope for is that this will allow for Odette’s freedom to be returned to her in its former glory. And perhaps an adult group of people could learn from being sensitive to sometimes unique circumstances.

Many warm regards
Mark

[Paul]

Thanks Mark, there is always two sides or atleast two views to a story. This here is what struck me

I should have spoken up about these things

I think we ALL should have and should do so in the future. Instead of just letting thing be, not raising your concerns and letting issues festers they can become bigger than the orginal problem.

I am sure there are many things that still need to be said by many people, hopefully they will be said soon and we will clear everything up and be a happy faimily again. However if time is needed then so be it, doors never close here.

[s3xy_j0nny]

Right, I have kept generally quiet on all this, but I am going to make a suggestion:

Can we all please put on our big girl panties and get over all this? Is there anything which has been done/said/felt that can't just be shrugged off and forgotten about? Do we really need this kind of melodrama in our lives? Do we need a Truth and Reconciliation Committee to make reparations?

We are all adults, and from a spectator's point of view, this all sounds like a playground squabble. I wasn't in Mumble when any of this happened so I have no frame of reference, but please, I'm sure we can all move on with our lives.

The above is directed at everyone involved, no individuals, just a general sentiment.

Currently my inclination is to distance myself from the clan, simply because I have enough kak to deal with daily without having to deal with more from my only social outlet.

[J_Th4ng]

Mark, firstly I'd like to tank you for coming forward on this and sharing with us your views and feelings. Hopefully that may have cleared up a few things, and given everyone something to consider. I'm not going to comment on any of the specific incidents, as I've already stated my opinions on those, and I'd like to some time to absorb what Mark has said.

Mark, I do however want to pick you up on one thing:

Then the last of many incidents, some that I do not care to elaborate on as it may seem frivolous, then broke the camel’s back for me, that being the incident that Jarrod has described from his point of view.

Sadly those who could shed light on what happened and give insight into what happened and all the circumstances around said are all silent. I will not try and explain myself and my choices made subsequent as it has been done, the circumstances were explained and nothing done, sadly it has not been shared with the clan in the correct light and a shame as it could make you guys even more awesome.

I in my heart I know that what happened was not correct for many reasons but as those who really know and understand have chosen not to come forward, not even for a friend,Odette, I will not discuss the matter for the simple reason I am not going to make this any worse, save to say that Jarrod I am saddened at your use of your point of view for seemingly your own goal, I know what was said to me by the one person who apologized, this person not having to by the way, but he did and what a kind gentle who I would take a bullet for any day might I add, but he did not apologize on anyone’s behalf except his own as he saw the circumstances.Shame on you for claiming that he apologized on your and the clan’s behalf.

This is what I said regarding that incident:

Some time in December (IIRC), there were a bunch of us playing together on a server, and on the grrr TS channel. At the time, you weren’t playing, it was just Mark and three grrrbians in a squad. Shortly thereafter, a fourth grrrbian joined the team, and Sheri asked Mark very politely if he would mind leaving the squad so that the four of us could squad together and get some practice in. Mark complied, and we carried on with our gaming. Shortly thereafter Mark quit the game and the TS channel.

Sheri, being the polite person that she is, phoned you guys later in the evening to check that Mark was okay about everything, and to apologise (not that any apology was required IMO) to Mark for asking him to leave the squad. Mark confirmed at this point that he was upset at the treatment that he had received. This AFAIK is the incident that has caused you first to suspend and now to cancel your grrr membership. Please correct me if I’m wrong or add any details that I may be missing.

Before you shame me, please explain how what I said was for my own goals, or where I stated that anyone apologised on the clans behalf? I ask this not to be confrontational, but rather to ensure that there is no misunderstanding as to my intentions with my post. All I was attempting to do was to state the facts as I saw them.

All in all I think that, on the basis of your decision to come forward and share your perspective of events, this is a situation that can be resolved. There have been some pretty strong opinions aired in this thread, but hopefully a better understanding can be reached between all parties going forward.

Mark, if you are serious about being friends with our clan, and hanging out with us, I suggest making and using your own forum login, and participating in discussions here. If you feel strongly about something that is happening, rather than sitting on it, open it up for discussion. We may not have a forum that discusses what game we are going to play as a group, but that doesn't mean that you can't make your opinions and feelings felt. I may be speaking out of turn here, but I'm sure we could organise access rights on the forum such that you (despite not being a clan member) would have somewhere to post things such that they are visible to the clan but not to the general public.

At the end of the day, as you said in your post, you are an important part of Odette's life. You will always be at the very least, a partner-in-law of the clan , and we need to be sure to treat you with respect. At the same time of course, that's a two way street. Treat us with respect, and talk to us when there''s a problem, and the relationship can be a happy one.

Right, that's enough said by me on this issue.

[TygerBS]

Onny is Mark Reading this?
Please ask him too.

Mark having read you long response, the one thing that stands out is you are mostly upset because of what people haven't done, not what people have done.
Being an introspective person who strives to grow and become better all the time. One lesson i have learnt is, expectations will for ever create pain and upset in your life.
Expecting an action from someone and then getting upset with them for not doing it is foolish, because essentially you are setting them up for a fall. They will disappoint you no matter what, its just a matter of time.
In this I see you expecting a lot of things from certain people, but did you clearly raise these views with anyone. From what you have said no you didn't.
You are only raising these points now.
Now yes expectations are a very hard thing not to do, we all do it. Yet the one thing we can control in regards to them is realizing that your expectations are just that..."YOUR" expectations and so if they are fulfilled or not is totally up to you. If they include something somebody else should of done, then the first thing to know is that you can never know what somebody else will do, so expecting something of them is fool hardy.
The only way froward it accept that what people do and don't do, 99% of the time has nothing to do with you. It is not meant to hurt or not hurt, it just is.

Now in this scenario, as upset as you are by peoples words and lack of actions, I think as an adult we can all go, geese well this is a misunderstanding, this is all not really actually worth getting upset over it.
Lets just drop it.
Can you do that?

Then going forward...voice your concerns, voice what you want from people and give them a chance to say yes or no.
Cause otherwise you are setting them up for failure.

Yes I know sometimes its hard to say things, and I know Ony that you are quiet and don't like to rock the boat.
All I can say is, talk to me in private, you can say anything to me, not much is gonna shock me.
I will pass it on if needed. You know I am not afraid to run off at the mouth

So come on lets be a happy family again.
Mark if you want to be a part of grrr then come join, i think it would allow you a look from the inside and a platform for you to say what you need.
Your reasons for not joining are silly.
Besides when you not on mumble you cant hear me laugh as i t-bag you

[SlipperyDuck]

Kudos for everyone for COMMUNICATING.

As strange as it sounds, this is something as South Africa's we are trained NOT to do, it's in our culture and it is destructive and damaging. It's actually one of the hardest bad habits to break, since, as a culture, we grow up doing as we learn from everyone else and don't notice the inherent potential problems that it causes.

I've had a seriously hard year last year, I did not let anyone here know about it, since it's something I had to work through with my family and while I glacingly mentioned it to Jono, I didn't feel it necessary to air it to anyone else, nor explain it fully.

The reason I mention it here now, is that it forms part of my thoughts and communication; something that was of paramount importance in my road to healing mentally. The big block in the path is our culture of (as Q said) silence and expectation which is a vicious cycle, as we never get the result we want which leads to more silence and expectation ultimately leading to depression.

Now I want to outline this carefully, since your silence and expectations out of the relationships, interactions and situations over the past few years have resulted in a perception of you. I say this because when you do not communicate about something and take the silent passive-agressive approach to things(I know I do this a lot and am working on it), you build your reasoning and how you percieve people will take it and how they should react to it, in your mind. This image, though and idea you have has it's own ego, it's yours, other people are not you and will NOT form the same idea, follow the same reasoning nor come to the same result as they have their own egos.
This all sounds like I'm going off on a tangent, but the bottom line is this;

Things that have happened, the reactions to them, the actions and lack of them of the last long while, from the two of you has resulted in the perception by others that you are trying despirately to distance yourself from us. Things not communicated means that it seems although Odette is being pressured into doing or not doing things, where (from your response above) it most definately seems that this is NOT the case, there is no pressuring these are simple choices made. I know the problems lack of communication causes, I have lived these things and can see them clearly now (hindsight - what a glorious thing you are)

Perceptions are being built as a result of a lack of communication, perceptions are evil dirty monsters that should stay in the closets where they are born.

Mark you are family here even if you don't officially wear a tag, Odette, well shes' my special twin, I don't want her to go anywhere. So I'll commit to being around a little more (I've been dealing with a lot and sidelined grrr for a bit, but it's ok, I'm making my way back home )

Lets' communicate guys, it has the power to set you free.

[Skouperd]

Perceptions are evil dirty monsters that should stay in the closets where they are born.

So who the phuck let Paul out?



Sorry guys, I realise this is a serious matter, but I could not let that one slide...

[NiteShade]

[quote="Onyx "]
Mark requested me to post this on his behalf:

I have allowed another’]

Hello Onyx, please could I ask you to have Mark elaborate on the above statement? Thanks.