GRRR Squad Forum

@Phats: Yeah I agree mate, when things don't work and once chaos breaks loose, its hard to come back - and thats something all teams have to deal with by just not getting into those situations. We do have two practices for each map planned, so I'm hoping we can be comfortable on whatever we choose; but yes, experience on the maps we choose will have a big impact if only for morale.

@Paul: Ah thanks guy, the more views we have tabled the better my decision making will be. I know its a bore to punch it into your keyboard, but its important. Otherwise things are just wishy washy fragments and we never truly get to considered results. Anyway I'm not making final choices for a while so theres plenty time for feedback I guess. For now: Karkand is in, Shaqi probably and Bazaar/Tehran maybe.

@Tyger: Yeah you're right, I think the only way to succeed at Metro is to be clinical about it. So far we've just kinda put ourselves in the areas we need to be, covered our arses and then randomly tried to break through and inevitably we all end up wiped in attempts to go forward or help each other. Lets all give the Metro attack and defend tactics some more thought and then post for all to learn, and we can test them on BOC!


Thanks for the feedback chaps... I'm really interested in the Bazaar/Tehran choice, I think since most teams will either eliminate Tehran or hope we do it may and may not be a good choice for us. It's kind of a random thing and we like darkhorse wildcards! However Tehran is more complex than Bazaar, it would be harded to master... Its our 3rd choice map, taking a risk on it is probably not a bad idea. Which risk do we take though?

We also need to talk about a strategy for Sharqi, B is a great cap option for RU; but its also very exposed. Getting an attack on B will draw troops from A and a tank from C: we need to have a way of countering the troops or taking their tank - then taking TV or A very quickly. Keep in mind if we do B/C and I go down, it's a long ride behind A back to B - so give the positions some thought and lets try get a view on whats most important.

I am not sure why we not good at Metro to be honest.
It isn't a difficult map, as the lines of fire are more obvious than on any other map.

I do know from an attacking point of view, we are shit on it, because we don't time our attacks, or communicate them effectively.
I mean attacking B from US side, there are 5 key positions that they defend from, that need to be taken out. Yet we have never once cominated and made a plan work on hitting them all at the same time, which we should be able to do.

Something like.
Rocket into lockers, rocket into office, pick phone booth guy, pick/rocket dog leg watching guy, one rush orange stairs, attempt to kill top lockers guy. All at the same time, 5 guys co-ordianted strike, 1 second after 2 guys rush into lockers another up orange heading for back flag.
If it doesn't work first time, try variations of it.

Currently our plan is ok you guys go on blue and you guys go on dogleg. Lots of shooting, lots of dying, but we make no headway.

Look how we have managed to do this with damavand, co-ordinated rocket strike on tank and we get in.

One thing I want to add though, this team is not a democracy!! The clan might be but the BF3 isn't, Hubris can take the votes into account but ultimately it is his decision.

He is the the captain, I chose him because I believe in the little guy and he has not steered us wrong yet. So if Hubris thinks that our other two maps should be Metro and Bazaar then those are the maps we will practise and learn in the run up to rAge.

SO if you really feel strong for/against a map then put your thoughts down to convince Hubris either way

Commentary time, sorry I have put it off for so long.

Karkand and Sharqi – it’s a lot more than nostalgia TBH. Its knowing the map back to front inside out as if its burnt into your head. Its taken us a LONG time to learn the difference between AB Alley/Bushy/Lockers/Crates/Prefabs etc. We know those maps. Not because we have pub stomped for thousands of hours on it, but because we’ve competed on it.

That’s just a bit of the story however. I feel we struggle on bottleneck maps big time. Metro is a perfect example. If you get pushed off B flag and can’t get in within 5 minutes, we start losing the plot completely. It takes a shit load to keep calm and collected and be critical when you’re getting slaughter like fish in a barrel. Where we thrive is maps with a chance of a back cap / ghost cap. If we can get the enemy to look away from a flag or start retreating, we make them pay. Fortunately, most maps have this. Dammy V = chopper over or Siene with an A;B;D cap as examples.

Another thing is, we should play maps where we are comfortable. Where we are relaxed and know the maps inside out. Its going to take a bit of work to get B2K maps to this point, but we need to push for that. Siene and Damavand are our strongest maps. We know them very well and understand the flow of play. I believe if we get to know the flow of B2K maps (Sharqi focus on B instead of C, Karkand B holding role etc), we’ll be a great position.

Karkand is a pretty linear map like Davamand but with some options, except for BzK we have done well on that Map and we pretty good strats and know the weakness so that is a definite option for me.

I also chose Sharqi because I think this is a "boggie" map for a lot of teams so it will either be eliminated by the other team or if we practise it well we could have the upper hand.

Here are my reason for NOT choosing the other maps

Metro - No armour, so less options, it is too easy to mess up on that map and then our brains get fried for the rest of the match.
Tehran - To unpredictable. Because it is a relatively big map and multi-leveled, you need to react very, very quickly and I don't think we are there yet
Bazaar - We just never ever do well on this map. Other than some noob team we have never even won a round on this map. So I would like to stay as far away from this map as possible, I would rather play metro than this map to be honest

[quote="Hubris"]Well that's exactly the problem Onny. Not only does the team have a mental block against the map, but it's dynamics speak directly to our weaknesses and to none of our strengths. The communication, patience, teamwork and trust is simply not at the level it needs to be to compete on this map. Going up against any champ team on metro would be suicide.

The thing is other teams really make those issues their strong point and until we learn to play as a team and not pubbing individuals it will continue to be excluded from map selection. We're practicing with the BOC guys to try and build the skills and confidence required to play Metro and hopefully carry that over to other maps. Thanks for the feedback it's always good to have a devils advocate :) :)[/quote]

It's more than that though. Close Quarters infantry battles are the domain of high reflex, high accuracy individuals. Typically the younger guys who have better reaction times, especially those who have cut their teeth playing competitive COD or CS.

The reality is that there are a few people in the clan that suit the high speed twitch play style (Hubris, Dryman, Nom, Phats spring to mind). For the rest of us, we're just not good enough to compete at the highest level at that type of game.

We need to focus on our strengths. Our strengths need to be our situational awareness, tactical thinking, and strong communication. Generally speaking, we shouldn't be particularly good on any linear maps that don't offer the opportunity of flanking our opponents. Damavand is something of a mystery in that regard, although I have my own theory as to why we do well in that map. I could be wrong, but I think that when we win the map, one of the following two scenarios are true (or both):

1. We cap B initially, and beat the enemy's first assault. When we have the ability to set up and entrench positions, we can do well. Pushing forward head on into an assault we typically lose. So getting B first is crucial
2. Phatso dominates in the chopper. By doing this, we have the ability to back cap the enemy, splitting their focus and giving our in-tunnel team an opportunity to cap B while they are distracted.

Not having the chopper option, Metro leaves us with one chance. Cap B first, and hold it for the entire round. I think we will always struggle to do this against better opposition. That's why I'd never include Metro in my map choices.

Bear in mind, the above thoughts come from being a spectator in competitive games, and participating in practices. I could have it wrong, but that's how I've interpreted things that I've observed of the team.

Sorry to double post but it seems like Karkand, Sharqi and Bazaar are the three most popular choices. I dont know whether that is because they're BF2 maps and this is just some kind of nostalgia (this is BF3 not BF2 and success does not "automatically" transfer between) or if people genuinely think they are the best maps for us. I'm leaning towards the former since there are absolutely no comments to support them. But whatever I'm just an administrator here, the people will get what the people want.

Well that's exactly the problem Onny. Not only does the team have a mental block against the map, but it's dynamics speak directly to our weaknesses and to none of our strengths. The communication, patience, teamwork and trust is simply not at the level it needs to be to compete on this map. Going up against any champ team on metro would be suicide.

The thing is other teams really make those issues their strong point and until we learn to play as a team and not pubbing individuals it will continue to be excluded from map selection. We're practicing with the BOC guys to try and build the skills and confidence required to play Metro and hopefully carry that over to other maps. Thanks for the feedback it's always good to have a devils advocate :) :)

Why not Metro? Is it such a terrible map? Its linear like the Damavand, you don't have to worry about armour, you have everybody on the ground pounding away at the oncoming waves of the enemy. Your communication and planned co-ordination between the 2 squads are better than what it used to be to make it work?

The universe will implode when I say so