GRRR Squad Forum

Hey there troops. Form up for roll call and announcements!! AANDAG!!

Well, it’s been quite a while since I wrote one of my rambling newsletter/update thingies, so I owe you all a few pages of boring text, combined with a controversial idea for the future of the clan that I want to throw open for debate.

Well, I think I have a humdinger of a discussion point this time, so I’m sure I won’t disappoint my fans that have been eagerly awaiting my insightful words (if you’re reading this, then that’s YOU).

Anyway, before I move into the big topic of the day, I first want to take a little time to share my thoughts on how things have been going for the clan over the last few months.

October last year, when I was handed custodianship of the clan, was an interesting juncture in the life of grrr. BF2 had pretty much run its course, we were all waiting for the ‘next big thing’ to arrive and invigorate us, and we were all pretty hopeful that Bad Company 2 would be that catalyst that would spark us on to bigger and better things.

Well, we’re halfway there. The game has arrived, and barring a few technical issues that are gradually getting resolved (complete with the mandatory introduction of a couple of new ones with each patch) the game has succeeded pretty well. There are no shortage of clans lining up to compete in the newly formed BC2 leagues, and it seems that the game has dragged across a lot of teams and players from the old enemy, COD4.

This is of course great news for the Battlefield community, considering that we struggled to assemble 8 teams for BF2’s final league season last year. And of course, the interesting times continued with the withdrawal of FiB from competitive Battlefield, undefeated in a few years of AGASA league and rAge competition. I personally have my suspicions as to the timing of their withdrawal, and think it’s a shame that we can’t see them competing against the best that the new BC2 league has to offer. Despite the loss of what was indisputably the most successful team in BF2, competition in the new BC2 league has been fierce. And the winners have not necessarily been the teams that we were expecting.

Unfortunately, I think that there was a perception amongst BF vets of all clans (including ours) that we would school the noobs that came into BC2 from other games. Our superior teamwork, understanding of how to play conquest style games, and knowledge of how to make best use of armour and air support would leave all of the old BF2 clans dominant in the new league, while the COD4 new boys would be struggling to adapt to the new style of play. Boy were we wrong...

After the first leg of the doGaming league, the grrr ‘premier team’ has proven to be anything but. We lost two games in this leg, drew one, and the ones that we won outright were all either by default or against teams with less than 8 players. Not a very auspicious start for us with this new game. We’re a long way away from the team that were runners up in the 2008 AGASA league for BF2.

I for one am very disappointed with the results of the league. Not because I think that we should necessarily be the best team out there, but because I know that we have the potential and the ability to do so much better. And nothing is more frustrating than knowing that should have done better than we did, and that our failure to do so is down to our own failings.

This post is not about what we did wrong as a team. Those discussions belong on the Danglers board, for discussion amongst the squad of players that played for that team. The point of bringing it up here is simply to say two things:

1. The future of Battlefield is strong. BC2 has brought a load of new teams in, and we are involved in one of the most exciting games available right now
2. In order to live up to our potential, and keep the grrr flag flying high, we need to be better organised and more committed to the league.

At the beginning of this year, I laid out a list of things that I wanted to achieve during my time as clan leader. They were as follows:

• Local hosting for the grrr website
• Support for WAGE as a gaming service and server provider
• Getting us ready for BC2
• grrrAge 2010

On the first of those, I haven’t as yet made any progress. We had been hoping for the Digital Life sponsorship to provide this, but as all of us must have realised by now, it seems that their offer of sponsorship is a bit of a lame duck (sorry Lee) red herring. With that in mind, I intend to look for web server hosts locally that we can migrate to.

The commitment to WAGE it seems was a little premature. They haven’t exactly delivered on a lot of what they said they would, and the bits that they did bring arrived far too late. I am now officially withdrawing my commitment to WAGE. Although I would really have liked to see an alternative to SGS, their just isn’t the weight of players on WAGE to make it viable long term.

The third point is of course the most important. As primarily a BF playing clan, the launch of the first new BF title on the PC in some years, meant that we all wanted to be ready for it. I’m very happy that with a combination of the technical expertise of some of our members, combined with Skouperd’s account at Frontosa we were able to get a good few of our members who had the means upgraded to rigs that will run the game well. And with any luck we’ll have everyone decent PC’s before too long. Added to that, we got ourselves a BC2 server. Something that I believe is crucial to us performing up to our potential going forward.

So the stage is now set for us to kick arse in BC2, we just need to get our steel toed boots on...

Alright, and on to the main point of this post. What I’m going to open up here for discussion is not a new idea. In fact, the groundwork for it was laid almost a year ago by Lee, and presented to the admin team of the time as a possible option. At the time, for reasons that I hope will be discussed in this thread by the admin team of the time, it was decided to park the idea. However, it has been rekindled over the last couple of weeks, and our current admin team are all in agreement that it should be opened up to the clan for debate and discussion.

The idea is a simple one. A merger. Two clans becoming one for the mutual benefit of all of their members. And who are the lucky people that could become clanmates? It’s none other than our sister clan, BBH.

I know that the idea at first sounds a bit radical. They are their own clan, with their own identity, leadership and philosophy. Why would we want to bring the two together?

I have a couple of good reasons why i think that the clans are good fit for a single entity. Firstly, and most importantly, all of the BBH guys that I know are nice guys. They are all people that I would vote in as members individually if they applied, and I think that they all embody the grrr spirit. Secondly, they have a goodly number of good competitive players. We need to bolster our teams for the upcoming leagues. One of our primary failings during the last league was having sufficient players available for games. Adding an additionally number of skilled players to the pool would be good. Thirdly, I would like to have Chaos involved in team management. He is phenomenally experienced, and the feedback I’ve have from some of the nutz players is that he is a great team captain to play under. I’d like to add his skills to those that Lee has in managing our BC2 teams.

I’d like for everyone to discuss this on this thread. Please guys, add your views here, before it gets put to the vote. I’m note going to add any more of my thoughts at this stage, I’d like to see what other people have to say first. The only point that I will add relates to logistics, should this merger go ahead:

It has been agreed with Chaos that should both clans want to progress with this, that THEY WOULD BE JOINING US i.e. we will still be [grrr]. Clan leadership will remain the same, although it makes sense that a couple of their members would be made clan admins straight away, to give them representation on the admin committee immediately.

Okay guys, let’s hear your thoughts and arguments. I’ll put up a poll in about a week or so to allow for voting on this initiative. Before that happens though, I’d like to see at least one detailed post from each of our current members on this topic. It’s a big one (like HUGE), and a lack of participation in these discussions can only be viewed as a lack of interest in clan affairs – which will make me very sad indeed...

Over to you guys, thanks for reading...

Thanks Drag

As I said in an earlier discussion, I value my tags highly. I consider you guys to be my second family, and in ALL cases would give you more time of day than any of my in-laws (this is the pryfart section hey )
With that in mind, I would hate to see [grrr] loose its closeness, camaraderie and fellowship just because we want to be competitive.

Would I be correct in saying that the choice is really this:
Do we want to be competitive in BC2 or do we want to remain the same eclectic, bunch of mad hatters? If we want to be competitive, then the solution on the table is a very reasonable one and kills a few stones with one bird. I cant see that the two are compatible, but maybe I am wrong.

I can see a few possible consequences:
To be competitive, MOST of BBH would then be in the A team. Not that I mind, and I was actually surprised to be included myself. How would the rest of the A team (or others) feel to be left out because of "newbies"?
I would also hate for it to turn into a case of "us" and "them" - I don't think it will, since we are all adults.
There is the whole U2M saga from before and during rage last year, I don't know exactly what happened, and as much as I respect chaos and U2, I personally don't like relationships that have been left soured. I count Mark as a friend, and I know Onyx does too. I would imagine that he would excuse himself from being a friend of grrr, unless he has made peace with BBH. My opinion is that it goes to the character of the leader (chaos) and as much as i dont have anything against him, it is a worry for me that he hasnt sorted something out (stuborness?).
One of my biggest worries is that we become competitive to the point that it is an uncomfortable place to visit. And that for me is unacceptable.

Do we have any idea what BBH thinks, collectively and individually?

Nice write-up, Jarrod. I'd like to state that I think this topic should be completely deleted after the vote so members feel free to speak openly.

When I first heard about the idea of a merger, I harbored some negative feelings towards the idea. Namely the following:
1. I was afraid that [grrr] would lose it's identity after such a large influx of new players.
2. I was afraid that [grrr] would lose that 'second family' feel that we are so lucky to share.
3. As Greg knows well , I am not the best at handling people causing negative controversy on the SGS/any public forum. We all know there are a couple outspoken BBH members in their clan.

Overall, the main concern I had was would [grrr] still be the [grrr] that we all know and love?

As you probably picked up, I typed the above comments in past tense. After giving it some thought, I think the merger would only strengthen our clan. I know a few of the BBH guys pretty well and asked myself... Would I vote yes or no if that person applied to [grrr] on their own? Each answer was Yes. There are a couple of BBH okes that I do not know very well and if I had to vote I'd defer to others that know them better.
As far as the 'family feeling', I think that the BBH guys would fit in well. If you think about how often we practice with them or play together on the open servers, they are kinda like extended family... I think it would be great to get to know them even better and this is the perfect opportunity.
As far as outspoken people, I think most have calmed down quite a bit. But to be completely honest, its a personal thang that I need to get over and I'm working on that.

It is obvious that the main purpose behind the merger idea is to strengthen our team in BC2. I'm all for that! Its the same as me wanting to sit out of a clannie if there is another member better suited to play. Above all, I want [grrr] to succeed. I've accepted the fact that there are stronger BC2 players than myself within [grrr] now and also in BBH. It will probably mean I won't make the "first team"... and that is okay. We're part of clan and that means [grrr] is first and foremost. Besides, it'll give me more time to polish my boots and clean my gun. On a serious note, I won't lie - sure I'll wish I could make the grade and be in the "first team". It'll give me something to work for!

We all joined a clan - a gaming clan- for one main reason: We like to share our time with people that have common interests. As much as I love each and every one of you as a friend, what brought us together is gaming and [grrr] is a gaming clan. As such, we should be doing our utmost to succeed in BC2. (Without, of course, turning into a militaristic FiB-style clan.) I think it is possible to keep our [grrr]-ness and be competitive at the same time.

In conclusion, I am behind the idea of the merger of [grrr] and BBH. I look forward to hearing the rest of [grrr]'s thoughts!

MAKE DA CIRCLE BEEGAH! unk:

A lot of sense in the previous posts.
A few questions from my side;

* Are all BBH keen for the merger?
* How many? Is there a list that want to join?

I dont know the story of what happened with U2, I guess its a personal issue and to be honest I don't really care. I care about people but not their personal issues.

Its a sad reality that not many in grrr have the time to commit to playing competitive gaming. We want to be a top side and have the talent but travel, work, family, telkom etc seem to prevent us getting as far as we hope. I don't know if merging with BBH will solve that issue but it does mean that we have a larger pool of players and I am for that.

I am sure that there is a conservative drive in all of us that wants to hang on to the bond we have developed and the identity of the clan as we see it now but I am one for change, because whether we initiate it or not, change will happen any way. I cannot predict what will happen if the merger goes ahead, perhaps we will see a rift, perhaps we will go camping together and share toothbrushes. Either way it will be a chance for the clan to grow stronger and I am for it.

I would like to see a thread where both clans can contribute to a conversation. I'd like to hear their concerns, questions, thoughts etc and have the chance to ridicule them.

Thanks for the post wized boss man.

It is a immense privilege for me to carry the [grrr] tags and I have done so through thick and thin. I still remember meeting Geth and Jono when I was with BFC all those years ago and the positive impression that they made on me. What a class bunch of guys and now girls I remember speaking about you guys and softly pushing our American comrade shady to join in the on madness she was missing out on.

I am sorry I have not been able to contribute to this [grrr] as much as I have wanted to over these past years. But the most fantastic thing about everyone here is that it's ok and all understand each other so well. We have all iterated that we feel extremely comfortable with everyone in the clan and we all fit tightly and cosily together. This is what makes us so unique we have enough crazy spice to through in the mix.

I am very interested in the proposal above but I would like to know how BBH feel about this? I've known most of the players from the BF2 day's and have had some wicked games with them on the opens all leading to good times.

From what I have gathered they all seem to be relatively like minded. I know there are stronger characters but sometimes we have to just go with the flow and accept people for who they are.

I think that a merger would have a positive impact on the clan as a whole providing a larger pool of players as well as contributors! And if you want to grow a bran then the only why to do it is to have more people helping out. Like most have said if this constitutes me not playing for the firsts and better and more committed players with better rigs are put forward! I am all for it.

Like my American comrade said it would give me something to work at.

This is an interesting turning point in the life of this clan and as I consider this a living entity I think that it would be beneficial in the long run.

I actually have a positive feeling about this and I think that it would be beneficial to [grrr] to merge with BBH. At least now we don't have to pilfer players any more like Phats and others :edit: Phatso I lurrrv you man!!!

Nuff said from my side I think it would be a positive step forward!

I like the idea of the merger for reasons previously posted - larger pool of competitive players etc. Plus, BBH are like a sister clan already, so a merger would be as natural as us marrying our sister.

First priority though is to hear from EVERYONE in the clan as to how they feel about the idea. If anyone has any misgivings or problems, they need to speak up about it freely in this thread. We need to consider every member of [grrr] before deciding on a course of action.

awesome! slips

Thanks Jarrod. I must apologize upfront, because I think my post may offend some older grrr players, but I am sure that you will all see this in the spirit in which it was intended and it is definitely not meant as personal attacks on anybody. At this point in time, I must confess that my loyalty is definitely with the Nutz team. The Nutz worked extremely hard to get where they are, and now from where I am sitting, it almost appears as if the Danglers just want to go and “steal” the better players from the Nutz squad, as such, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth to be honest.

Despite what everybody is saying, that they will sit out for the team, do what’s best for the team, blah blah blah, bottom line, the reason why we all spend a lot of money on our rigs, spend a lot of time practicing etc, is to play the game, nobody really like cheering from the side lines. Sure, we are all team players, sure we all understand that we can’t all be super-players, sure we understand there are only 8 players in a side, but truthfully, deep down, we all like to play. Anybody telling me that this is honestly not the case, they would actually prefer being chosen reserved for a game, not only will I tell them they are nuts, I will personally donate R5 towards their shrink account.

I only recently joined the grrr-clan, and felt straight at home. I realized when I joined that chances of me playing in the first team will be zero, not necessarily because of what I could add to the team, but because of the history some of you guys shared. As such, I was one of the first people to accept to go and help out BBH in the league, because after all, I want to play in the league and be part of a good team.

At the end of the day, 3 grrr members, SloDaz, PMurgs and I became part of the combined grrr-BBH NUTZ team, starting in every game (barring SloDaz who had issues with his line once). Bravo squad, which I was given the honor to be squad leader off, started off very rocky, given the fact that we had 4 new guys that NEVER played together. Through a lot of hard work, that squad came together during the course of the league resulting in a very competitive squad at the end of the day. Granted, this was only achieved due to the commitment from individual squad members, being Murgs, SloDaz and StukkenD. In later games, Murgs and Krygorian swapped squads because Krygorian game style fitted more in with the Bravo style of play while Murgs were able to contribute a lot more value to Alpha squad. At the end of the day, I am really proud of the way Bravo squad performed, not to mention how well the Nutz played as a team. So what am I saying? The Nutz gelled together very nicely which in its own right was not an easy journey at all. It would be a very sad day indeed if we are now going to start breaking up the Nutz.

From looking into from the outside to the way the Danglers performed, I just did not see that level of commitment as shown by the Nutz. Theoretical, the Danglers should be a way better team than the Nutz yet, in reality I think the Nutz did manage to hold their own in this leg of the tournament and also against the various practice sessions against the Danglers. I know I would be very sad if the Nutz team is now dismantled after all the hard work that has gone into making that team work.

Chaos is definitely able to bring something to the party in terms of his leadership and almost militant style of demanding team work when playing league games. From what I have observed from the Danglers, that is something that was lacking in some games, as I said, I am looking in from the outside and definitely have no clue what happened in the game itself. All that I know, the Danglers should have wiped the floor with the Nutz, individually each player in the Danglers is way better than the Nutz, yet they did not. I would say, should we merge then a paradigm shift will be required from who is “actually” the better team… as of now, it is not a given that it is the Danglers. I also think, and I could be wrong, that the Danglers, consciously or unconsciously, are a very “clicky” team. This is not necessarily a bad thing, since the only way to become like that is to play an enormous amount of games together, and this is only achieved by years of playing together. I am not so convinced that bringing in some extraordinary strong personalities, like Chaos, into that team dynamic will be such an “easy” experience as some of you may think. Saying that, Chaos was able to produce results with a fair number of “second-rated” players (me, SloDaz, Murgs) that could not even make the cut for the “first-team” yet we ended at the end of the league with some very good performances.

I would not hesitate for a second to play in Chaos team, however, we need to realize that he has a very strong personality, and that is not something that we should ignore nor take lightly. I am not sure how many of the old grrr guys will accept such a strong personality marching into grrr without having some second thoughts about their decision now. A bull in a china shop comes to mind. Neither would I be happy if Chaos is now required to change his personality, because that is what makes him a good team contributor.

Let us think practical, do we want to have one uber strong team, which is so extremely competitive that they play in the premier league against the current top-dogs. If we go for this, then obviously the “second” team will only be able to play competitively in a much lower league. This will then immediately generate an “us” vs “them” situation. The first team, I can tell you now, will need to be a lot stricter on practice sessions, team commitments, and what is required from each player than what we are all used to. If this is not happening, then the first team will get their butts handed to them in the premier league. Losing all your games are not fun either, I know, I’ve played for HF when it was still HF and not an undercover FIB team.

The other option, and the one that I would personally suggest and prefer, is if BBH do join GRRR, then I would suggest only make minor adjustments to the Danglers and the Nutz, say two players swaps at a time. That way, you will ensure that we have two competitive teams, both playing in more or less the same league. This way, we will all have an opportunity to play some good games, against competitive teams, and neither team will feel “inferior” to the other team. Thereby removing “us” vs “them”. For special competitions, like Rage for instance, we could always decide to enter a single “uber-team” for the event, but then at least, you have 16 players competing for 8 spots without the prejudice of “premier league” vs the “cheese and wine league” players. Playing in a competitive league, winning SOME games, are much more interesting than winning or losing ALL your games.

I do apologize if during this post I’ve stepped on some individuals toes. Unfortunately, I just don’t share the ra-ra-ra feeling of giving up something the Nutz have worked quite hard on to achieve and create a single uber-team and thus exclude more than half the remaining GRRR members from having a proper good time in the league as well.

In summary, I am all for the merger, provided we don’t go and break up the awesome team spirit that has already been created by the Nutz. Swap out one or two players for the next leg between the two teams for sure, but anything more, and I would start feeling uncomfortable with the merger. I just think that to have two teams, that are almost equally good, is more beneficial to the clan than to have one uber team and one crap team.

Anyevent, that is my 2 cents worth, and again, apologies for stepping on some toes in this message.

RANT IN-----Consider my toes stepped on…. Phhhheeet…me a second rate player…ME A SECOND RATE PLAYER… where do you get off saying things like that!!!! Ok so I usually come bottom of the log but that’s because I am such a leet medic and focus only on healing and providing the tender care to you careless wounded soldiers. -----RANT OUT

I must say that I have no issue with the guys from BBH and in fact having played with them during this league, I can only say that a merger will be positive. However, these are the guys you are dealing with, be warned...

Skoups: right guys no team kills, lets get our game on
SloDaz: shit someone just killed me
Stukkend: ooops sorry I thought you were a tree
Chaos: right guys stop messing around and focus on the game in 5 min
SloDaz: fuck, someone just ran me over
Krygorian: ooops sorry, was trying to park the quad
Chaos: for fucks sake guys FOCUS ON THE GAME!!!!!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOM :atomic:
Chaos: WTF
Stukkend: sheeeez sorry guys, I just wanted to see how deep a crater C4 makes

In general I think this is a great idea and in fact I too am more concerned about how this affects me in the league. I have been having a great time in this league and I would be disappointed if we started using the second team as scratch patch to fill up the first team. This would mean that every time we started gelling together, the best players would be taken out for the first team. I know that the league has finished and we should plan for a new one, however, all I ask is that we don’t over power one team at the expense of the other. So whilst you should have great players in the first team, give us a good leader and a few decent gunners.