This post is long overdue. I advise you all to read this. Fuck it, I demand you all read this.
Hubris put in a shitload of time to the clan in multiple aspects. He has been a stalwart of the competitive team since he joined and has stood out and put in endless hours to ensure servers are setup, practices are organised, strats are known and his gaming skills were top tier. All of the these in the online world are unfortunately very thankless duties. Gamers will sooner tell someone that they’re good looking than thank them for something.
I unfortunately don’t think we’ll see him back soon and that absolutely devastates me. As a leader, I should have been able to prevent something like this from happening. But due to my non-involvement with the competitive side of the clan this year, short of a few things, and the fact that I play quite a few games with various people, this is a bit of a shock.
It is my understanding that there was an altercation of sorts recently regarding the state of our clan’s BF4 server. I was not there so am in zero position to call any judgements here. I do know however that the “tension” for lack of a better phrase in this clan is palpable. The utter disrespect shown by everyone to everyone else is fucking swak. I understand that guys will joke about and pull each others hair etc and that is perfectly fine. But what has happened now I believe is a partial product of this environment. Its not banter anymore guys and on our shoutbox, the dissing is actually disgusting at times. I wonder how new clan members get settled where every second sentence is someone calling someone else a c*nt.
When I took the reins of this ship in October last year, I asked in my acceptance speech that we all respect and love each other like family. Surely if we were not going to do that AT ALL, something would’ve been said in the weeks after or someone would have told me that it wasn’t going to work out? The lack of negative responses told me that it was accepted. But it was only a matter of time until things started getting to their good old fashioned, “tjoon everyone’s mother” vibe.
Now, I can keep typing until my fingers bleed on this topic because I really dislike it, but I’ll spare you guys the extra reading. Most of the time, the atmosphere in [grrr] is awesome guys. Intelligent conversations, good advice, fun times playing the games we love. But eventually after 100000 jokes about peoples mothers, it becomes a norm to diss people and to disrespect people.
I am telling you now, that needs to change.
I would like your constructive feedback on this topic. Do you agree? Do I have any sort of point? If no one agrees with me on this topic, let me know and I can fade to black quite easily on this topic. I would especially like the more senior members of the clan who have been around for a while to comment on this. Am I missing the point of [grrr] clan?
Serious Matter - Please read
I don't think people are disrespecting each other we have always bantered like this. What there has been is sense of apathy and I honestly think that is what got to Hubris.
He put in the effort and people didn't go "Fuck you" atleast that was a response, it was more of a meh. That is worse in some cases because it means you have no opinion of what the person did.
I think a lot of the senior guys have been doing this for a long time and this year a lot of the seniors all took a "break" from heavy involvement, especially in the competitive side.
This left a bit of a gap that couldn't be filled by just Hubris and 1 or 2 other people. Ideally the senior guys would have "faded" out more gradually from the front lines as other people took their place but now it was 1 guy stepping up in place of 3 or 4 guys which is too much.
P.S. Just incase people mis-interpret my banter I will tone it done especially on the SB
He put in the effort and people didn't go "Fuck you" atleast that was a response, it was more of a meh. That is worse in some cases because it means you have no opinion of what the person did.
I think a lot of the senior guys have been doing this for a long time and this year a lot of the seniors all took a "break" from heavy involvement, especially in the competitive side.
This left a bit of a gap that couldn't be filled by just Hubris and 1 or 2 other people. Ideally the senior guys would have "faded" out more gradually from the front lines as other people took their place but now it was 1 guy stepping up in place of 3 or 4 guys which is too much.
P.S. Just incase people mis-interpret my banter I will tone it done especially on the SB
I read through Hubris post and it too shocked me in the sense that perhaps our appreciation has not been effectively communicated! I know I jest and I may joke with Paul on the occasion in a manner that well could be construed as disrespectful, I've been around here forever and I would never want to make any clan member feel inadequate and or alienate them in anyway this includes Paul and I would hope that someone would do me a favor and call me out on behavior that may be negative.
If my banter and or approach is abrasive at times then I am more than happy to tone it down for the betterment of the Clan. I as much as anyone would not think it, I have a huge amount of respect for everyone here. All of us! I think everyone is has a contribution however small it maybe. Even the more quieter members of the clan.
Perhaps we can look at being more positive towards each other, not to say that the odd joke should not go amiss we have had an influx of new members and our family has grown so much over the past 7 years its incredible. I still feel that at the end of a hard day of graft and whatever craps going on in one's life we have a place to go to to be with like minded people and just being is ok! That's the sense of community we have I appreciate jumping into TS and listing to the guys chat and joke and go on!
Some of the funniest moments in my life have been had hanging out with [grrrbians] on the TS server in chat etc. If anything would to threaten that I think any course of action should be taken to uphold and maintain the fellowship and camaraderie we all have together! That's what we are all about!
If my banter and or approach is abrasive at times then I am more than happy to tone it down for the betterment of the Clan. I as much as anyone would not think it, I have a huge amount of respect for everyone here. All of us! I think everyone is has a contribution however small it maybe. Even the more quieter members of the clan.
Perhaps we can look at being more positive towards each other, not to say that the odd joke should not go amiss we have had an influx of new members and our family has grown so much over the past 7 years its incredible. I still feel that at the end of a hard day of graft and whatever craps going on in one's life we have a place to go to to be with like minded people and just being is ok! That's the sense of community we have I appreciate jumping into TS and listing to the guys chat and joke and go on!
Some of the funniest moments in my life have been had hanging out with [grrrbians] on the TS server in chat etc. If anything would to threaten that I think any course of action should be taken to uphold and maintain the fellowship and camaraderie we all have together! That's what we are all about!
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I agree fully Phatta.
I tend to only give Russian grief, but he knows its all a joke. I will scale down the already lower-than-norm amounts of tjoon towards him.
I also agree with Paul that the exclusion/less involvement of the more seasoned players did have an affect on things on the DGL side. (This includes myself,but I honestly need a break)
Tyger and Candipants will recall what a crap job being a SGS admin was, so I know in a way how Hubris feels.
I guess the casual level of "happing kak" in the chatbox spilled over to TS and this was taken up the wrong way.
Then also the game still being broken did not help things.
Once again, from my side, I feel bad for complaining about the game so much that night but it wasn't about his server settings, not even close.
Bad timing was just bad.
I tend to only give Russian grief, but he knows its all a joke. I will scale down the already lower-than-norm amounts of tjoon towards him.
I also agree with Paul that the exclusion/less involvement of the more seasoned players did have an affect on things on the DGL side. (This includes myself,but I honestly need a break)
Tyger and Candipants will recall what a crap job being a SGS admin was, so I know in a way how Hubris feels.
I guess the casual level of "happing kak" in the chatbox spilled over to TS and this was taken up the wrong way.
Then also the game still being broken did not help things.
Once again, from my side, I feel bad for complaining about the game so much that night but it wasn't about his server settings, not even close.
Bad timing was just bad.
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Voetsek-Mikey
- Senior Member
- Posts: 807
- Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:18 pm
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BadA$$jack
- Senior Member
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:50 pm
- Location: Cape Town
What I can add to this is, yes we all joke with each other and yes Russian is mostly on the receiving end of things. I get what you saying about the "mother" jokes and I'm guilty of it and will tone down, sure we all have respect for our mothers and so should we have to others.
What happened that night was also a overflow of other nights where the "admin" got flak for stuffing up the server..., think that's why Dry no longer gets involved.
I was first to join Hubris on the server and was told he is testing the TDM settings, but its stuffed him around, team balancing didn't want to work as he wanted it to, then the guys started to join and was complaining the whole time, then Hubris explained that he even tried 2 other 3rd party apps to sort things out, but it didn't work. We all got moved between squads in game and after each round, U2 ended up most of the times in other squads without any grrr members and started complaining, and from there things just went south. Not saying that he was the only one complaining, so don't get me wrong.
The swearing and shouting was a bit hectic and did put a damper on things, so I get your point Phats, that's where respect got lost.
Everyone should dig deep and think what they say as it shows that it does effect people, maybe that's why Russian is single again... see there I go again !!!! SORRY
What happened that night was also a overflow of other nights where the "admin" got flak for stuffing up the server..., think that's why Dry no longer gets involved.
I was first to join Hubris on the server and was told he is testing the TDM settings, but its stuffed him around, team balancing didn't want to work as he wanted it to, then the guys started to join and was complaining the whole time, then Hubris explained that he even tried 2 other 3rd party apps to sort things out, but it didn't work. We all got moved between squads in game and after each round, U2 ended up most of the times in other squads without any grrr members and started complaining, and from there things just went south. Not saying that he was the only one complaining, so don't get me wrong.
The swearing and shouting was a bit hectic and did put a damper on things, so I get your point Phats, that's where respect got lost.
Everyone should dig deep and think what they say as it shows that it does effect people, maybe that's why Russian is single again... see there I go again !!!! SORRY
Q1 : How did the game go
Paul: Paul : Those fucking dipshit hackers came at us like a bull trying to ram a Spaniard in tights
Paul: "Firstly they went on and on and on about UAC! Fuck UAC! UAC ain't nothing, why you niggas questioning my honour? Is it because I am black?"
Paul: "Then they came to a knife fight with a sword! A sword I tell you! Those limp wristed fools need a sword to counter act our brilliance"
Paul: "Didn't matter though, even though we lost the knife fight we still go the maps we wanted,nooooooobs!"
Paul: "After that I didn't concentrate much because I busy getting blown by all of the PewPew guys mom's"
Paul: "Even one of the sisters wanted to join in and I was all like Bitch please, you need to go practise first"
Paul: ANd that boys and girls is how you mother fucking answer a mother fucking question!
Good points from both Phats and Paul.
Whilst those who are more used to the tone of the shoutbox wont mind the constant dis'sing, it might be off-putting to new members of both the clan and the forum. Everyone's boundaries are different. I think some of the male clan members also forget that some comments may be offensive to women, of which we are lucky to have a few in the clan.
Most of the more seasoned members from the BF2 days have pulled back from BF4. Work/kids/game bugs etc. I will be back in a few weeks to kick it on the public servers with my usual periods of long silence on TS, followed by heavy breathing and loud swearing. I know we are all looking forward to that.
This does leave an opportunity for the newer members to take up positions on the competitive side and become more involved and that is definitely a good thing.
This clan has continued to grow in number and thrive due to selfless contributions. People have put of themselves and their time into making it better and pushing it in a direction they would like to see. Sometimes that vision is shared, more often than not it goes unnoticed and unappreciated.
I would encourage everyone to contribute where they can, on the understanding that not only will you go unthanked, but in all likelyhood, people will instead insult your mother.
You will get out what you put in.
Whilst those who are more used to the tone of the shoutbox wont mind the constant dis'sing, it might be off-putting to new members of both the clan and the forum. Everyone's boundaries are different. I think some of the male clan members also forget that some comments may be offensive to women, of which we are lucky to have a few in the clan.
Most of the more seasoned members from the BF2 days have pulled back from BF4. Work/kids/game bugs etc. I will be back in a few weeks to kick it on the public servers with my usual periods of long silence on TS, followed by heavy breathing and loud swearing. I know we are all looking forward to that.
This does leave an opportunity for the newer members to take up positions on the competitive side and become more involved and that is definitely a good thing.
This clan has continued to grow in number and thrive due to selfless contributions. People have put of themselves and their time into making it better and pushing it in a direction they would like to see. Sometimes that vision is shared, more often than not it goes unnoticed and unappreciated.
I would encourage everyone to contribute where they can, on the understanding that not only will you go unthanked, but in all likelyhood, people will instead insult your mother.
You will get out what you put in.
Mmmm, a much needed discussion, I think. Thanks Johnny for lifting the rock so that we can bring these issues out into the light.
Firstly, on the respect thing. I personally don’t feel that the level of respect isn’t there, for as long as I’ve been in the clan there has been a lot of banter and tjooning. For me, it’s part of what makes the clan what it is. However, that’s not to say that things haven’t got more extreme, or that we might be more sensitive to it.
I’m lucky enough to have been around here for a long time. I’m used to the dissing, coz I’ve experienced it since the clan was young(er). However, we’ve had a rapid growth in membership in the last 12 months. Prior to that, most clan members had been around for years, but in the last year, we have a lot of new people. I imagine that if I were one of the new people, I would find it very difficult to break into the ‘core’ of the clan. It’s almost as if there are two clans, the oldies and the newbies. With the large volume of newbies, the clan doesn’t feel as close knit as it used to. Of course this is normal, and over time this separation will fall away (a couple of grrr4ges will get everyone properly integrated).
What is also really disappointing is the ‘mehness’ of BF4. I couldn’t have imagined that 3 months after a new BF was launched, the clan would be playing so many different games. What should have pulled the clan closer together has only succeeded in pulling us apart. We have over 30 members in the clan now? And yet we have only just managed to scrape together one BF4 team.
As to Steff, well I perfectly see his point. He has been tireless over the years in making our BF team as successful as possible. He strategises, organises games, picks and assigns roles for people and generally manages a team of very diverse and difficult individuals. And we don’t give him the credit or the support that he deserves. Unfortunately there is a long history in the clan of non-ownership, with individual members not putting their hands up to take on responsibility. Of course I am generalising, but really if you think about it, who can honestly say that they have put in a lot of effort for this clan, other than Hubris and the Duck? We all need to contribute more.
I know that at the moment, there are a lot of personal circumstances that are being dealt with. A few that spring to mind:
- Jono has a new baby in the house
- Stu has moved house, is redecorating and has no ADSL
- Lee is swamped with work
- Geth constantly emigrates
- Christo is getting married
- Johnny just got married and moved house
- I’ve just started a new job
With all of these things going on, it’s not surprising that people are not as involved in things as normal. Hopefully as life settles down, people will get more involved again.
Unfortunately, as a BF clan, we’re not a success at the moment. Too many of us just aren’t keen on the latest iteration of the game. On the bright side though, a lot of us play multiple games, and so there is a still a fair amount of socialising going on, it’s just decentralised right now.
Ultimately, the clan is strong in its membership. We just need to get to know each other better, help each other out, and play more games. That doesn’t seem too difficult?
Firstly, on the respect thing. I personally don’t feel that the level of respect isn’t there, for as long as I’ve been in the clan there has been a lot of banter and tjooning. For me, it’s part of what makes the clan what it is. However, that’s not to say that things haven’t got more extreme, or that we might be more sensitive to it.
I’m lucky enough to have been around here for a long time. I’m used to the dissing, coz I’ve experienced it since the clan was young(er). However, we’ve had a rapid growth in membership in the last 12 months. Prior to that, most clan members had been around for years, but in the last year, we have a lot of new people. I imagine that if I were one of the new people, I would find it very difficult to break into the ‘core’ of the clan. It’s almost as if there are two clans, the oldies and the newbies. With the large volume of newbies, the clan doesn’t feel as close knit as it used to. Of course this is normal, and over time this separation will fall away (a couple of grrr4ges will get everyone properly integrated).
What is also really disappointing is the ‘mehness’ of BF4. I couldn’t have imagined that 3 months after a new BF was launched, the clan would be playing so many different games. What should have pulled the clan closer together has only succeeded in pulling us apart. We have over 30 members in the clan now? And yet we have only just managed to scrape together one BF4 team.
As to Steff, well I perfectly see his point. He has been tireless over the years in making our BF team as successful as possible. He strategises, organises games, picks and assigns roles for people and generally manages a team of very diverse and difficult individuals. And we don’t give him the credit or the support that he deserves. Unfortunately there is a long history in the clan of non-ownership, with individual members not putting their hands up to take on responsibility. Of course I am generalising, but really if you think about it, who can honestly say that they have put in a lot of effort for this clan, other than Hubris and the Duck? We all need to contribute more.
I know that at the moment, there are a lot of personal circumstances that are being dealt with. A few that spring to mind:
- Jono has a new baby in the house
- Stu has moved house, is redecorating and has no ADSL
- Lee is swamped with work
- Geth constantly emigrates
- Christo is getting married
- Johnny just got married and moved house
- I’ve just started a new job
With all of these things going on, it’s not surprising that people are not as involved in things as normal. Hopefully as life settles down, people will get more involved again.
Unfortunately, as a BF clan, we’re not a success at the moment. Too many of us just aren’t keen on the latest iteration of the game. On the bright side though, a lot of us play multiple games, and so there is a still a fair amount of socialising going on, it’s just decentralised right now.
Ultimately, the clan is strong in its membership. We just need to get to know each other better, help each other out, and play more games. That doesn’t seem too difficult?
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Cat Nipples
- Senior Member
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:11 pm
Some 2c from a newcomer's perspective:
Since I've joined (and even before then) I've enjoyed it immensely here. I loved meeting all the new people and listening to all the stories and not once did I feel like I was being disrespected or that any of the banter that I've been on the receiving end of was in mean spirit.
Actually I found quite the opposite, people always seem willing to offer advice or help. And we've had good fun on the SB. Obviously some things could perhaps be toned down a bit as to not offend (which I can imagine happening, but I haven't experienced it yet)
I am not sure what happened with Hubris, all I know is (from having chatted to him on ts and that "practice" we had) I wish he was going to play BF with us!
Since I've joined (and even before then) I've enjoyed it immensely here. I loved meeting all the new people and listening to all the stories and not once did I feel like I was being disrespected or that any of the banter that I've been on the receiving end of was in mean spirit.
Actually I found quite the opposite, people always seem willing to offer advice or help. And we've had good fun on the SB. Obviously some things could perhaps be toned down a bit as to not offend (which I can imagine happening, but I haven't experienced it yet)
I am not sure what happened with Hubris, all I know is (from having chatted to him on ts and that "practice" we had) I wish he was going to play BF with us!