Grouping - the Basics

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Expand view Topic review: Grouping - the Basics

Re: Grouping - the Basics

by Thor_23 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:37 am

also when a tank has engaged a enemy give him a sec to build agro before going in

Re: Grouping - the Basics

by Megageth » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:17 pm

One of the problems with pulling foes off the tank is that the tank has to run around like a tit trying to re-engage the foes. I have 1 threat call that has a range of around 10m and takes about 30s to recharge. The other threat generators I have all require melee contact. If you have large DPS moves with threat, save them for finishing moves when the dude is almost dead. I would also recommend that you move close to the tank before using the moves.

* Let the tank initiate any combat.
* If you are taking hits, move towards the tank & ask the tank to call/help.
* If you are taking hits make sure you do not continue generating threat.

When any 1 player goes down the group as a whole suffer so keep a sharp eye on morale and keep a stack of food/potions for instances.

Re: Grouping - the Basics

by Stu » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:58 am

Dragonne wrote:
@Stu - You need to do a bit of reading up on threat management. When we were instancing the other night, you kept generating too much threat and making the main mob target you. As a very high single focus DPS class, you can't just go all out on the attack against the main foe. You'll pull the mob right off the tank, and break the battle formation. I need to do a bit of learning in this regard too. My heals are generating way too much threat, even when I'm ~5 levels below everyone else.



I worked out the Threat issue, I was using a damage output based Stance which added +15 the Threat Damage! not a good thing! I have subsequently selected a less aggressive stance which has worked with Leeroy (Aka Fly). I still need to test this fully in an instance!

Re instances I also need to time certain High DPS moves with the Tanks cause if I pull someone should should to take the agro off me once I've performed the damaging shot!

Re: Grouping - the Basics

by J_Th4ng » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:20 pm

Speaking of Addons, here's a very useful looking plugin that makes it easier to see what effects/buffs/debuffs etc you have on your character, as well as cooldown times and effect durations.

http://www.lotrointerface.com/downloads/info361-BuffBars.html

Here's a youtube video of it in action:

LotRO Mod Spotlight No 2 - Buff Bars

Re: Grouping - the Basics

by J_Th4ng » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:49 pm

Not what I meant Ion. I'm referring to a visible icon or marker that will hang over a mob, and can be selected/allocated/moved by the Fellowship leader. You can thus have a battle commander that marks mobs for crowd control or attack, so that everyone knows who to target and with what, rather than trying to explain the calls over VoIP. It's quite a common thing in WoW AFAIK, so I'm hoping that there are similar options in LOTRO.

Seems that Geth has something on this though. This means that we should be very careful in appointing a Fellowship Leader, as that person needs to play the 'commander' role as well as managing their own character. Ideally it should be one of the support characters, as they aren't usually in the think of things. If Lee is playing his LM for example, it would be good to have him call and mark targets, as he will mostly be managing debuffs and crowd control.

@Stu - You need to do a bit of reading up on threat management. When we were instancing the other night, you kept generating too much threat and making the main mob target you. As a very high single focus DPS class, you can't just go all out on the attack against the main foe. You'll pull the mob right off the tank, and break the battle formation. I need to do a bit of learning in this regard too. My heals are generating way too much threat, even when I'm ~5 levels below everyone else.

Unfortunately, there's no threat meter available in LOTRO at this stage. There are constant debates/arguments going on in the forums about addons, a lot of people think that they break the game and make it too easy. So for now we're going to have to judge our own threat, and try to space out high threat generating skills in battle. Look and see if you have any skills that generate no threat, or even possibly reduce threat. Use these to keep things manageable.

Re: Grouping - the Basics

by Thor_23 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:26 pm

the captain class has a lot of particular "marking" skills... asuming that is what everyone is ref to
these marks also allow for aditional damage to the main monster being atacked etc

Re: Grouping - the Basics

by Megageth » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:01 pm

I dont know about a threat monitor but the fellowship leader can select foes and place markers on them by right-clicking on their char icon.

Re: Grouping - the Basics

by J_Th4ng » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:06 am

Some more grouping rules. These are taken from a WoW guide, but will be applicable to LOTRO too. This stuff is particularly important for instancing:

Getting through an instance is a lot easier if everyone is following the same basic social rules:

  • Clarify loot rules and targeting icons before you start the instance.
  • Clarify each character's role before the first pull. This is particularly important if there are hybrid classes in the group. Hybrid characters can have vastly different abilities depending on their talents and gear. This is also true for classes that tend to have one primary role. For example, a Rune Keeper, whose configured for DPS, may prefer to play in a DPS role rather than a healing role.
  • Wait until a fight is over to loot. Many players find rolling on loot during a fight to be disruptive or distracting. Also, since some loot is bind on pickup (BoP) -- once you've picked it up, you can't give it to anyone else -- mistakes on rolls can keep people from getting items they need.
  • Stay with your group. If you wander off alone, you may find unexpected mobs and lead them to your party (yes you, Stu)
  • As you're traveling through the instance, let the tank go first. That way, if the party runs into enemies, the player most equipped to survive the attack will be in the lead.
  • Give everyone time to replenish power/morale/buffs before pulling another group.
  • Don't ninja other players' loot by disobeying the established loot rules or otherwise giving yourself an unfair advantage.
  • Try not to leave the computer, also known as going AFK, during the instance. If you must, let your party know you have to step away.

Questions for anyone who knows:

1. Are there add-ins for LOTRO? For example, there's an add-in 'Threat monitor' available for WoW, and I think that something like this would be really useful in LOTRO. Can be used by people like myself and Stu to understand why we're pulling mobs all of the time.
2. Are there ways to mark targets in LOTRO? In WoW you can make targets with symbols, so that everyone knows who to attack, who needs crowd control, etc. Once again , this could be very useful for us.

Re: Grouping - the Basics

by J_Th4ng » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:31 am

Nice guide there, Geth. Lots of details. For the benefit of those who won't read the whole thing, here are a few good tips for FMs taken from that link:

Common Do's and Don'ts of Fellowship Maneuvers

When trying to successfully execute Fellowship Maneuvers, there are basic guidelines that, when followed, can greatly improve the rate of success.

  • Stay close! With the exception of Minstrels and Hunters, do not stray from the center of battle. Burglars, Guardians, Captains, Champions, and even Lore-Masters must be within melee range of the target to contribute Red or Yellow to a conjunction. This is especially important to remember if the fellowship is attempting any of the RRRRR-kicker conjunctions.
  • Be mindful of stuns! Fellowship Maneuvers require that the target be stunned or knocked down. If a monster has recently been stunned or knocked down, it will be granted temporary "Stun Immunity," during which time it cannot be stunned or knocked down again. For this reason, skills that stun the opponent (or otherwise trigger Stun Immunity) should not be used on the fellowship's primary target(s), for a poorly-timed stun will cause any Fellowship Maneuver attempts to fail.
  • Finish or cancel your current action immediately. Your contribution to the Fellowship Maneuver must be queued up just like any other skill; you cannot make a contribution while you are performing another move. In the case of skills with long induction times, it is sometimes necessary to cancel the move (default key is Esc) so that a contribution can be made to the Fellowship Maneuver immediately. This is especially important to remember if you have been assigned an early position in the sequence.
  • Consider using hotkeys. Every second counts when attempting a Fellowship Maneuver, so consider binding a key to the assist button (eg Caps Lock). Also, the colors of the wheel can be bound to keys, such as the arrow keys. Another recommendation is to use your keypad to match the color wheel by assigning 8 (red), 6 (green), 2 (yellow), 4 (blue), and 5 (fellowship assist).

Watch and listen carefully. Over the course of a battle, group leaders will often call out specific Fellowship Maneuvers either by voice or in chat. Missing out on this information can be detrimental to the entire group, so be vigilant! [/list]

Re: Grouping - the Basics

by Megageth » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:03 am

Threat

Threat is what attracts the enemy to one party member over another. Guardians have several moves that generate threat and if you are in a bind and getting throttled its their job to call the enemy off you and take the damage. Please check all your skills and make sure that you do not use those that generate threat unnecessarily.

Fellowship Maneuver

http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Fellowship_Maneuver

I suggest that everyone reads up on Fellowship Maneuvers and that the following combinations be used as default.

For 4 or less players: Red x 4.
For 5 players: Red x 3, Yellow x 2.
For 6 players: Red x 5 with Fellowship leader choosing a kicker.

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