Grouping - the Basics

[J_Th4ng]

One of the main advantages of all of us playing LOTRO together is so that we can group up to complete quests. In the LOTRO quest guides, I found a very useful set of tips for being good at grouping, something that we all want to be. It's the basics, but we should start thinking along these lines as early as possible.

Being Great in a Group

If you enjoy grouping, you may want to polish your knowledge and skills to be more effective in fellowship.

First, take a few moments to optimize your UI Settings for a smoother grouping experience:


Turn on Voice Chat (Options > Audio, check "Voice Enabled" in the Voice section). Even if you don't have a microphone, you'll be able to hear the leader's instructions.
Turn on the Assist Window (Options > Combat Options, check "Show Assist Window"). Many groups will designate a member to choose targets for the group to focus fire on.
Turn on Show Dispellable Effects Only (Options > Social Options in the Group Effect Options section). This will allow you to see harmful status effects on other members of the group.


Next, it really helps to understand Group Roles:


Most group content will require one member of the group to tank - usually a durable class that can get the mobs to focus their threat (agro) on him. If you pull a mob from the tank, slow your damage or heals until they can get the threat back. Some groups will designate a backup tank or "off-tank" to pick up mobs the tank can't control (like the one beating down the healer).
CC or crowd control classes help the tank by temporarily stunning or rooting additional mobs (called "adds") - essentially taking them out of the fight. Attacking a controlled mob can set if free to attack the group, so target using the assist window whenever possible.
The main job of DPS or damage classes is to burn down the group's target as fast as possible. Be sure to use the assist window if set!
The main job of the healer is to keep the tank from dying (if the tank dies, the rest of the group usually follows). Some content is hard enough to need a back-up healer.


Getting Started with Fellowship Maneuvers

Want to be great in groups and raids? Then you’ll need to master Fellowship Maneuvers, or "FMs". (You might also hear these referred to by their old name "Conjunctions", or "CJs" for short.)

An FM is a powerful, coordinated group attack. FMs can be triggered by certain classes, most often Burglars or Guardians, but many times they occur by random chance. When an FM starts, a "wheel" with four colors pops up on your screen. To participate in the FM, you click a color on the wheel.

But simply clicking a color at random won't help your group: the color and order of each group member's contribution affects the outcome of the attack. There are a limited number of valid patterns, each of which can do extra damage to enemies, restore morale or power to group members, clear debuffs - even summon temporary allies. No single FM does all of this, however, so your group leader may ask the group to perform specific FMs depending on what your group needs most.

It's essential to get your contribution right: failing to contribute, or just tossing a random color will often cause the FM to fail completely.

Popular FMs


Pure of Heart (GGGBB), which restores health and power to the fellowship, is a very popular FM.
Noble Blood (BBBGG) produces a similar effect, with an emphasis on power.
Noble Lineage (GGBB or BBGG) has a similar, smaller effect but it can be executed by just four group members.
Some groups prefer the "Red Kicker", where everyone clicks the red icon except the last person (the kicker), usually the healer. The kicker chooses the last color based on what the fellowship needs most.

Break the Door (5 reds + yellow) is a powerful area of effect attack.
Roll of Drum (5 reds + green) gives the group a large heal over time (HoT) and cures fear and wound debuffs.
Hew the Stone (5 reds + blue) gives the group power and summons an oathbreaker to protect the kicker for a few minutes.


Another great approach is "Around the Wheel". Following the wheel around in either direction for at least 3 colors will always produce an FM - often an exceptionally good one - no matter which color you start with.


Other things to know about FMs


You must face the target to contribute to an FM
FMs only work in groups; you’ll never see one while soloing
You must be level 12 or higher to participate in an FM
After successfully executing an FM on a mob, it will be immune to another FM for one minute
Mobs that have recently been stunned are immune to FMs


More details on FM's: http://lotro.mmorsel.com/2010/09/getting-started-with-fms.html

[Phatso]

Pro guide for the MMO noobs Jarrod ;)
This will become exceptionally important when dungeon runs and raids become commonplace.

In addition to the bit on FM's, just to add, I know the Burglar Class has a 8 Second stun skill (I may be wrong) that initiates the FM... More on this when I am in game.

[Thor_23]

yes, the Guardian also has a shield bash that starts it...

Very nice guide.

Think we should as a clan choose a default FM to use and when everyone is comfortable with it we can start using a secondary?

[J_Th4ng]

No credit to me on the guide, it's all copied and pasted from mmorsels guides.

I reckon that we need to decide on a couple of things for grouping:


A default group leader that calls the shots.
Default FM that we use should one pop up - I suggest using the 'Red Kicker' to start, it's the easiest to follow. We then just need to determine who the kicker is.
Start, even in our smaller groups, to allocate roles to everyone e.g. who is main tank, main healer, role to be played of Rune Keeper, who calls targets and directs the battles


I know that this may seem like a bit over complicated for now, but if the whole objective is to be grouping and raiding together, we should bed down good grouping principles asap.

@Phats - I think that you're the most experienced MMOGer of all of us. I would be great if you could add some of your experiences to this. I've never done this stuff before (and I'm sure that many of us are in the same boat), so a complete n00b's guide of things to do/consider/learn would be really useful.

[Phatso]

I can offer whatever I know from WoW and other MMO's, although most of my experience is from WoW. I don't know if all of this will apply to LOTRO, but we'll find that out soon enough. I have played for nearly 6 years and performed in all 3 major class types, led 10man and 25man groups and been a class leader (like an officer of a specific class) for the majority of the time. I would love to help wherever I can :)
(will post as much as I can as often as I can here... work is messy...)


Mob - a bad guy, enemy, monster, thing that wants to kill you, thing that you want to kill.
Encounter - the moment you start combat with mob/s till the moment you leave combat. The "fight" if you will.
Tank - Main guy who lets the mob smash him, and ensures the mob doesn't smash anyone else, especially healers.
DPS - acronym for Damage Per Second, a measurement of damage output and also the short for a DAMAGE DEALING CLASS.
Healers - the people who heal, keep the tank alive primarily and the team alive secondly (the team must prevent damage to themselves before they need heals even).
Aggro - "I HAVE AGGRO" = this means you are getting smashed by a mob or about to get smashed by a mob. Usually yelled when you have effed up and have pulled the mob (see next point).
Pull - the tank will do this, its essentially telling the mob "hit me". Pulling should in most cases be done by the tank, as I am unsure of aggro mechanics for now.
CC - Crowd Control, loose referral to any ability that will debilitate a mob.

First and foremost, communication is most key, everyone can talk before encounters, as long as its of value.

Marking of targets with symbols is now a 2nd nature in WoW and is critical to a succesful encounter. Mark mobs according to kill and/or CC priority or mark your tanks who would need healing more than the DPS.
This makes calling anything out easier in the fight too. Instead of shouting "everyone on the Shadow-patterned-long-legged-dagger-wielding-orc-of-DEATH", shout "everyone on {SYMBOL}". Far easier.

Learn your class inside out - generally goes without saying, but when you are playing at max-level/raiding, its your priority and responsibility to know all the mechanics and rotations and skills of your class. You should be actively researching (in and out of game) how your class works and how to improve, ALL THE TIME. (I know we are not going to be a hardcore raiding kinship, but this is still important).

Have fun - MMO's become a solid grind after a while, you all probably already know that ("yay, i need 10000 ingots"). You need to keep the fun factor in mind and never let playing the MMO become a chore or "job" of any sort. Some of you may say this will never happen, but keep it in mind that it may.

(Thats all I have time for for now, need to run to a meeting. Like I said, I will add to this list wherever I can.)

[flycatchr]

Pro guide for the MMO noobs Jarrod ;)
This will become exceptionally important when dungeon runs and raids become commonplace.

In addition to the bit on FM's, just to add, I know the Burglar Class has a 8 Second stun skill (I may be wrong) that initiates the FM... More on this when I am in game.
phats i have made a "bag of marbles" for the burglar class thats starts the FM i think it is for level 30 - i sent to s3xy, and will send to you as well

[J_Th4ng]

Nice intro there Phats, thanks for that!

Has anyone enabled the 'Assist' window yet? If so, what does it do / how does it work? I assume that it can be used for assigning targets and allocating attack focuses? How do you mark targets with symbols? Is that something that's done in the assist window?

[Megageth]

Threat

Threat is what attracts the enemy to one party member over another. Guardians have several moves that generate threat and if you are in a bind and getting throttled its their job to call the enemy off you and take the damage. Please check all your skills and make sure that you do not use those that generate threat unnecessarily.

Fellowship Maneuver

http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Fellowship_Maneuver

I suggest that everyone reads up on Fellowship Maneuvers and that the following combinations be used as default.

For 4 or less players: Red x 4.
For 5 players: Red x 3, Yellow x 2.
For 6 players: Red x 5 with Fellowship leader choosing a kicker.

[J_Th4ng]

Nice guide there, Geth. Lots of details. For the benefit of those who won't read the whole thing, here are a few good tips for FMs taken from that link:

Common Do's and Don'ts of Fellowship Maneuvers

When trying to successfully execute Fellowship Maneuvers, there are basic guidelines that, when followed, can greatly improve the rate of success.


Stay close! With the exception of Minstrels and Hunters, do not stray from the center of battle. Burglars, Guardians, Captains, Champions, and even Lore-Masters must be within melee range of the target to contribute Red or Yellow to a conjunction. This is especially important to remember if the fellowship is attempting any of the RRRRR-kicker conjunctions.

Be mindful of stuns! Fellowship Maneuvers require that the target be stunned or knocked down. If a monster has recently been stunned or knocked down, it will be granted temporary "Stun Immunity," during which time it cannot be stunned or knocked down again. For this reason, skills that stun the opponent (or otherwise trigger Stun Immunity) should not be used on the fellowship's primary target(s), for a poorly-timed stun will cause any Fellowship Maneuver attempts to fail.

Finish or cancel your current action immediately. Your contribution to the Fellowship Maneuver must be queued up just like any other skill; you cannot make a contribution while you are performing another move. In the case of skills with long induction times, it is sometimes necessary to cancel the move (default key is Esc) so that a contribution can be made to the Fellowship Maneuver immediately. This is especially important to remember if you have been assigned an early position in the sequence.

Consider using hotkeys. Every second counts when attempting a Fellowship Maneuver, so consider binding a key to the assist button (eg Caps Lock). Also, the colors of the wheel can be bound to keys, such as the arrow keys. Another recommendation is to use your keypad to match the color wheel by assigning 8 (red), 6 (green), 2 (yellow), 4 (blue), and 5 (fellowship assist).

Watch and listen carefully. Over the course of a battle, group leaders will often call out specific Fellowship Maneuvers either by voice or in chat. Missing out on this information can be detrimental to the entire group, so be vigilant! [/list]

[J_Th4ng]

Some more grouping rules. These are taken from a WoW guide, but will be applicable to LOTRO too. This stuff is particularly important for instancing:

Getting through an instance is a lot easier if everyone is following the same basic social rules:


Clarify loot rules and targeting icons before you start the instance.
Clarify each character's role before the first pull. This is particularly important if there are hybrid classes in the group. Hybrid characters can have vastly different abilities depending on their talents and gear. This is also true for classes that tend to have one primary role. For example, a Rune Keeper, whose configured for DPS, may prefer to play in a DPS role rather than a healing role.
Wait until a fight is over to loot. Many players find rolling on loot during a fight to be disruptive or distracting. Also, since some loot is bind on pickup (BoP) -- once you've picked it up, you can't give it to anyone else -- mistakes on rolls can keep people from getting items they need.
Stay with your group. If you wander off alone, you may find unexpected mobs and lead them to your party (yes you, Stu)
As you're traveling through the instance, let the tank go first. That way, if the party runs into enemies, the player most equipped to survive the attack will be in the lead.
Give everyone time to replenish power/morale/buffs before pulling another group.
Don't ninja other players' loot by disobeying the established loot rules or otherwise giving yourself an unfair advantage.
Try not to leave the computer, also known as going AFK, during the instance. If you must, let your party know you have to step away.


Questions for anyone who knows:

1. Are there add-ins for LOTRO? For example, there's an add-in 'Threat monitor' available for WoW, and I think that something like this would be really useful in LOTRO. Can be used by people like myself and Stu to understand why we're pulling mobs all of the time.
2. Are there ways to mark targets in LOTRO? In WoW you can make targets with symbols, so that everyone knows who to attack, who needs crowd control, etc. Once again , this could be very useful for us.

[Megageth]

I dont know about a threat monitor but the fellowship leader can select foes and place markers on them by right-clicking on their char icon.

[Thor_23]

the captain class has a lot of particular "marking" skills... asuming that is what everyone is ref to
these marks also allow for aditional damage to the main monster being atacked etc

[J_Th4ng]

Not what I meant Ion. I'm referring to a visible icon or marker that will hang over a mob, and can be selected/allocated/moved by the Fellowship leader. You can thus have a battle commander that marks mobs for crowd control or attack, so that everyone knows who to target and with what, rather than trying to explain the calls over VoIP. It's quite a common thing in WoW AFAIK, so I'm hoping that there are similar options in LOTRO.

Seems that Geth has something on this though. This means that we should be very careful in appointing a Fellowship Leader, as that person needs to play the 'commander' role as well as managing their own character. Ideally it should be one of the support characters, as they aren't usually in the think of things. If Lee is playing his LM for example, it would be good to have him call and mark targets, as he will mostly be managing debuffs and crowd control.

@Stu - You need to do a bit of reading up on threat management. When we were instancing the other night, you kept generating too much threat and making the main mob target you. As a very high single focus DPS class, you can't just go all out on the attack against the main foe. You'll pull the mob right off the tank, and break the battle formation. I need to do a bit of learning in this regard too. My heals are generating way too much threat, even when I'm ~5 levels below everyone else.

Unfortunately, there's no threat meter available in LOTRO at this stage. There are constant debates/arguments going on in the forums about addons, a lot of people think that they break the game and make it too easy. So for now we're going to have to judge our own threat, and try to space out high threat generating skills in battle. Look and see if you have any skills that generate no threat, or even possibly reduce threat. Use these to keep things manageable.

[J_Th4ng]

Speaking of Addons, here's a very useful looking plugin that makes it easier to see what effects/buffs/debuffs etc you have on your character, as well as cooldown times and effect durations.

http://www.lotrointerface.com/downloads/info361-BuffBars.html

Here's a youtube video of it in action:

LotRO Mod Spotlight No 2 - Buff Bars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfcgwsOZUoc#ws)

[Stu]

@Stu - You need to do a bit of reading up on threat management. When we were instancing the other night, you kept generating too much threat and making the main mob target you. As a very high single focus DPS class, you can't just go all out on the attack against the main foe. You'll pull the mob right off the tank, and break the battle formation. I need to do a bit of learning in this regard too. My heals are generating way too much threat, even when I'm ~5 levels below everyone else.



I worked out the Threat issue, I was using a damage output based Stance which added +15 the Threat Damage! not a good thing! I have subsequently selected a less aggressive stance which has worked with Leeroy (Aka Fly). I still need to test this fully in an instance!

Re instances I also need to time certain High DPS moves with the Tanks cause if I pull someone should should to take the agro off me once I've performed the damaging shot!

[Megageth]

One of the problems with pulling foes off the tank is that the tank has to run around like a tit trying to re-engage the foes. I have 1 threat call that has a range of around 10m and takes about 30s to recharge. The other threat generators I have all require melee contact. If you have large DPS moves with threat, save them for finishing moves when the dude is almost dead. I would also recommend that you move close to the tank before using the moves.

* Let the tank initiate any combat.
* If you are taking hits, move towards the tank & ask the tank to call/help.
* If you are taking hits make sure you do not continue generating threat.

When any 1 player goes down the group as a whole suffer so keep a sharp eye on morale and keep a stack of food/potions for instances.

[Thor_23]

also when a tank has engaged a enemy give him a sec to build agro before going in