GFX Failure

[Stu]

hey Techo's

This is the problem I am having currently.

My PC loads into Windows 7 no issue. Runs smoothly as soon as I load into BFBC2 the following happens after a minute in game.

To me this is a Hardware issue as Lee and Drag said this may be a heating issue, however I had My case side pannel open yesterday and there should not be too much of an issue with heating.

However I will get two additional 120mm fans and add them to the case.

Your thoughts greatly appreciated all

[Phatso]

That definitely looks like a heat issue..** Or some shaders are borked on the card.

Before you get fans, check the temperature of your GPU. Just cos your case is open, doesn't mean its not overheating.

edit
**reasoning behind this is that i've had screen tearing when I've had heat issues.

[Stu]

KK do they have replacement fans for GFX cards? I think the one on the current one may be rather tiered?

[Paul]

STu I am no techie but that doesn't look like overheating to me. Usually when a GPU overheats the system shuts down. When the PC is still running but the gfx are screwed that is usually something else i.e. Drivers or the card is just fucked

[J_Th4ng]

Stu, I thought you said that you weren't getting artifacts, rather that the PC was shutting down?

With those artifacts, I reckon that you do have a heat problem with the card. Taking the side panel off does help, but it won't create airflow through the system. Modern graphics cards take air in at the back of the card, and pump it out of the front of the card (the back of the case). You need to have intake fans in teh front of your case bringing cool air past your HDD's and into the card. Your case has one of these already, but it would be useful to pop in a second. Also, you have a mounting for 2x12cm fans on the side panel. I'd get at least one of these to mount over the graphics card.

Also, be sure that your case is not pushed back too close to a wall. As your PC expels all of it's hot air out of the back of your case, you dont' want the heat to build up due to a lack of circulation at the back. A vent fan or two on teh top of the case would be a good idea, but you may not want to buy a whole load of fans right now!!

As I suggested in the shoutbox, it's worthwhile getting a couple of benchmark testing tools to check your CPU and GPU for overheating.

First, download 'RealTemp'. This can be used to monitor temps of all of your CPU cores.
Download 'Prime95' set it to run a 4 thread torture test, focusing on CPU (not memory). Run this for about 20 minutes - half an hour. If your PC can manage this, then the CPU is probably not the cause.

There are many tools for testing GPU's, Furmark is a good one, but be warned that it puts your GPU under EXTREMELY high workloads. You may be better off with something like 3DMark. If your PC survives the Prime5 test, you should run one of these. You'll need something that can monitor the GPU temps, I'm not sure what you'd use for an nVidia card. RivaTuner may be able to do this?

Lets find out what's causing the problem before we spend cash on potential solutions.

[Stu]

^ ^ All for identifying the issue are there any special GFX cooling units I can look into?

what about?

http://www.take2.co.za/electronics-arctic-cooling-accelero-xtreme-5970-vga-cooler-7803763.html

[SlipperyDuck]

the stock cooler will work fine, you just need to have cold air pumping in towards the card....ie. Side Panel with Fans pumping air at the card.... the air through the fans will be 10-15°C cooler than standing air. Also when you do NOT have a fan blowing air AT the card, the card heats up and the air around it that is being sucked into the GFX cards fan will also heat up - making it even harder for the card to cool itself. . . . see where I'm going?

Bottom line: Need to have a lot of moving air for modern GFX cards

[Megageth]

Stu have you got any temp readings off the card? Try GPU-Z if not.
I would try:
Pull out the card and reinsert into Mobo
Check GPU temps and make sure fan is turning
Check power cables to card and make sure its getting enough juice
Try different drivers

- then I would consider alternate heatsink/fan combos

[Stu]

great got some stuff to work with.

Here is some more info look like CPU is running warm. Will have to get a decent CPU Fan/Heatsink

Core GPU temp I measured was 40deg but I don't believe that. considering taking my desk fan and pumping it at the PC see what happens?

[J_Th4ng]

Were these temps taken while running Prime95? If so, they are high but not dangerously so. If on the other hand the PC was idling, then those temps are terrible!!

What load was the GPU under when you took the temps? Were you running furmark or somesuch? If it was idle, then it could well register 40 degrees.

[Megageth]

Ya I have the Q9550 and I assume the temp thresholds are the same. ie Intel specs 71.4C as max recommended. My hottest core occasionally spikes at 72 when I have overclocked AND left it running Prime95 for an hour.

May be that your CPU is not seated correctly. Take if off, check the thermal paste and reseat. Only if your 2nd attempt also yields similar results would I buy another cooling solution.

[Megageth]

By the way, who assembled your rig?

[Paul]

Jarrod, so it is safe to assume he new what he was doing so the setup shouldn't be a problem, unless he made a mistake with changing nappies

[J_Th4ng]

TBH, I did have a few problems seating the CPU fan, but didn't really have the time to reseat it. Stu, it would definitely be worth checking that out.

[Stu]

when you Run Prime95, does it immediately start to put pressure on the CPU?

if not then I think my PC was idling? Will check the seating I know Jarrod did struggle slightly it wasn't an easy job at that. perhaps it bumped loose in transit.

Added to check list.

[J_Th4ng]

When you click to start a run on Prime95, it immediately puts all four cores under 100% load. You should have RealTemp running first, then fire up Prime95, and monitor temps. They will steadily increase for a while and then top out. 5 minutes should be a good start.

[Stu]

ok then those temps are at 100% load they started at 45 - 50 prior to running Prime95

[SlipperyDuck]

Don't confuse Launching Prime95 the application, with Starting a Prime95 Stress run..... If you were getting those temps with Prime95 just being launched and not RUN as yet, then your CPU cooler is barely making contact with the processor.

[SlipperyDuck]

oops- didnt read your last post

[J_Th4ng]

Okay, that's not too bad then. Should be lower, even with stock cooling, but will still be manageable. Remember that no game will stress the CPU as much as Prime95 does.

Also, if you add a couple more fans for airflow in the case, the CPU temp will drop.

On to the GPU then...

[Stu]

:gah:

ok so - this is what I've done.

-Reseated RAM
-Checked CPU seating
-Checked GPU seating

Updated installed new Nvidia Drivers.

Installed 4 new 120 mm fans

Demonstrated by my brilliant graphical illustration the fan placement and directional flow!

I'm updating to SP1 Win 7 and will check this again... Edit - Checked SP1 same situation. Game loads can play for about 40 - 50 seconds then freeze of death.

done some subsiquent research and it appears that this is a card issue... If I stand to be corrected. I don't have anyone who lives in my vacinity who could test the card... Duiwel? would u test it for me in your box?

Let me know

[Paul]

Just because you are having such a kak time with your PC I am not going to inform the depths of wrongness with which you spelt demonstrated.

[Phatso]

Stu, if that GFX card temp is while a game is running or just after, thats perfectly fine. 60-70 degree's is fine even when under load.

[Megageth]

Stu if noone closer can test it, you can bring it round to my spot. I have the GTX260 running so no driver change necessary.

[J_Th4ng]

Good to see that you've got some good airflow going there, Stu. I would probably take one of the fans off the top of the case and mount it in front (if there is a mounting for a second fan) blowing air in.

What to try next?

Have you tried different driver versions? Have you tried other games to see if they cause the same issues? Does 3DMark and Furmark work okay?

I'd agre that it's a GPU issue, but not sure yet whether it's hardware or software related. Lee ran this card for two years without issue, so I'd check software problems first i.e. drivers, reinstall Windows etc.

You wanted to install the 64bit version of Win7 anyway, this might be a good reason to do it.

Finally, when you first took the PC home, I thought that it was running BC2 just fine? I thought that for the first couple of nights it was running okay?

[SlipperyDuck]

now that you've got excellent cooling (Kudo's on the setup)

Try running Furmark..... Furmark is a tool that stresses your GFX WAY MORE than any game ever will.... in fact it's designed to send your GFX card utilization to absolute MAX and heat it up as much as possible.

If Furmark freezes your machine, then you may have a problem with power supply to the GFX card.....
Not sure if your power supply is dual or single rail, if it's a Dual Rail setup, you will need to have the six pin connector comming from the same rail as your hard drives n all that, then the 8 pin connector on a rail ALL OF ITs OWN.

If it's Single Rail, then theres no problem with power, you will need to look at software..

As suggested above, the best setup from my experience (I have a Q9450 and used to have the GTX280) is Windows 7 x64 Fresh install, fully updated 1st with no pagefile on the system drive, but rather on an alternate drive.

Don't load any "funny" programs that load system drivers to emulate hardware - like daemon tools - or this will cause problems that cannot be explained.

anyway, lots of things that can be looked at and tried.
1st step now after cooling is Furmark to stress the card and see what happens. *note the card will get VERY HOT, it's designed to operate at 100°C, but good-enough Temp under stress is in the 90-96°C range.

[Stu]

BFBC2 was working perfectly from when I received the build for 5 to 6 days no issues

ok Cool thanks for the pointers fella's

I seem to have misplaced my 64 bit installation. But I will have a look at it!

@ LEE no Daemon 'Tools'? I did recently install this? Could this really cause this?

@ Geth I may take you up on your offer. I have a wedding to attend so it may only be during the evening after work next week some time if that suites you?

Anyone else second the power issue? Thanks for the feedback chaps go lots more digging around to do.

[flycatchr]

2nded

[J_Th4ng]

PSU is single rail: http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6643

There should not be any power issues whatsoever with your setup. That's a 750W single rail PSU, you should be capable of running SLI with that monster.

[SlipperyDuck]

@ LEE no Daemon 'Tools'? I did recently install this? Could this really cause this?

Yes, and YES - emphatic YES

Daemon Tools on Win7 = bad news

Think back, did the problems start once you installed Daemon tools? - I know the answer is yes, coz, I've experienced the same thing....

Problem though is, now that daemon tools is installed, uninstall does not get rid of the SPTD driver (SCSI Pass-Through Direct).
SPTD will stay in your system forever... Need to format re-install

[Stu]

:gah: and :curses: and :waiting: and :ffs: and :wooty: :wooty: :wooty:

Ok will try the reinstall w00tz might as well install 64bit now.... oh well

But what am I going to use for all my iso's I need to mount ? :(

[J_Th4ng]

Stop robbing games, and buy them?

[SlipperyDuck]

Winmount mounts ISO's, but doesnt do SecureROM and all that other hackware

[SlipperyDuck]

And Winmount is Win7 friendly

[Stu]

Stop robbing games, and buy them?

bah! like that will ever happen....

What will happen this evening however is that I will reinstall Win 7 64bit and see if I get any further with that!

[Stu]

ok so I deff think its hardware as now this is what I get on start up!

and this is the the image that is continuously displayed.

What I will be doing is now that I have a BOX and upgraded PC I'm going to put away for a entry levl gfx which should do me fine for the next couple of months.

[J_Th4ng]

That doesn't look very good. Did you reinstall Windows?

The fact is that the GPU was working just fine while it was in Lee's PC. I reckon the only thing that could've happened is that the card was damaged in transit. Maybe the cooler is separating from the GPU or something.

I assume that you've tried connecting the monito to the other DVI connetction on the card?

[Phatso]

Have you tried a different screen?

I know it may be a noob question, but are you sure the screen is 100%?

[Stu]

yes Screen is 100% tried the second DVI connector and I get the same result... Unless it is just flook that this occurred!

not too sure what else I can try! these images start from b00t now, previously it was only from in game...

[NiteShade]

Did you re-load a win7 64 bit over the weekend, Stu?

[Paul]

Stu I think the card is just grinding to a halt. Get Mega to test it and if you can test another card in your machince

[Stu]

Did you re-load a win7 64 bit over the weekend, Stu?


No i did not, I didn't bother, as I got the artefact's on boot up so I reckoned the Artifacting was due to the card

[Thor_23]

no dude sounds like that card is on the way out doesn't matter what you do.
how old is the card?

[Megageth]

Ya if the card cant handle the graphics requirements of the POST screen then you might wanna check on the warrantee...

[baselineac]

...mebbe you should try plugging it in on the onboard gfx....?
i got the similar effect a while back, then after looking at the card and fiddeling with it ...the fan fell off...re attached the fan ...hey presto...all was wekking.....

[SoSheOhPathix]

I recommend manually adjusting the gfx hardware with a light ball pene hammer.

[Megageth]

Haha he said 'pene'.

[Stu]

lol...

It's cool I've spoken to a PC shop down the road from me and they do Lay-by so I'm going to put down a deposit on a card then pay it off over the next two months or so... all sorted...

Now what is a decent to mid range card? not top of the range because I cannot justify spending a months mortgage payment on a GFX card to the wife...

[Paul]

Dude make sure that it is the card that is a problem, what happened to your old Card? Can't you put it in there for now? If I remember you had an 8800 like me?

[Stu]

I will check the card out again but I installed the 8600 and no issue on the PC... it's defo's the card in my opinion


8800 was swapped with a friend of mine, in hindsight i should of held onto it for a while longer, but I swapped it out for a HDMI cable/8600 (HDMI PCI - Card) 5.1 Surround sound system and some other items for my Media Centre and Xbox

[Paul]

If you are mainly going to use this PC for Bad company then the 8600 should do you for now as BC2 use the CPU a lot. You might have to play with everything on low.

But if it is fine then save up for a nice card so you can join us on BF3

[SoSheOhPathix]

Now what is a decent to mid range card? not top of the range because I cannot justify spending a months mortgage payment on a GFX card to the wife...


So don't tell her. What she doesn't know, won't bother her.
And, if she does find out, remember:
Forgiveness is easier to get than permission

[s3xy_j0nny]

Stu, I have an 8800 GTS at home if you want it.

[Stu]

cool Jono let me know when you home and I'll pull through and fetch it this evening. tanks a million