no boots for Christmass

[flycatchr]

Hi there brainiacs

I have a strange problem:

whenever I boot up the PC turns off. JUST before the 'password' section of windows.

specs:
xfx8300 mobo
AMD phenome quad core 2.4ghz
vista 64 bit
9800gtx+
8 gigs el cheapo
2x 250 gig HDD in raid 0

i have tried virtually everything:

first thing i did was remove cpu and redo the paste, check and clean fans and blow dust off heat sinks.
no change

then i changed the PSU with the OLD PSU that was used for the self same PC
no change

i also checked stuff in bios, not that i know too much about bios

i also took out and ram and put back seperate units back
no change

undid power supply to GPU which sort of made a difference but didnt really notice exactly what went wrong
completey removed GPU
NO CHANGE

tried install disk and occasionally get to the point i can ask for "last known safe mode"
IT STILL TURNS OFF AT THE POINT WHEN THE DLL's seem to finish loading

now i am getting more worried that is the raid setup, so i fiddle with bios to get try a chance to at least try get my info
no change

(somewhere in all this i try IDE drives but pc wont even start with only the IDE cable in - i am sure there is a bios setting i am missing, but still no change)

SO - got a SATA drive and plugged that in
no change

UNPLUGGED raid drives
NO CHANGE

so - bottom line seems that either the CPU or mobo arent working unless something else can mention someone else???

[SlipperyDuck]

8 gigs of el cheapo . . . hmm

overdraw on the FSB for your motherboard, they actually technically don't design motherboards to just work with MAXED out ram like that, you'd actually have to bump up the Voltage for the memory.
What seems to be happening in your case is that as windows initializes the RAM and the mobo must charge up every RAM Cell, which causes a dip in the FSB voltage as each cell is charged.

Quick dirty method, is to use just 4Gb of RAM, more than that is actually a waste until you find a Killer App that will use that much. 4Gb is happy max - 6Gb if you're using an i7 with tripple channel (since 3Gb is just not enough [3X1Gb] so 6Gb has to do [3x2Gb])

Anyway enough blah blah..... Use a build with just 4Gb RAM, you won't feel any difference between 4 and 8

That, or start tinkering with your Front Side Bus Voltages at your own risk....

[flycatchr]

thanks lee, but i did take out 3 of the dimms and tried booting with only 2 gigs AND only 4 gigs - am i missing something,
and this was a sudden problem, nothing has changed except buying and playing BC2 vietnam and installing DSTv.

IIRC - that mobo is designed for 8 gigs of ram, but srand under correction.

[Megageth]

Do you get any beeps when the shutdown occurs? Is the system overclocked? Sounds like a RAM/Mobo.

[flycatchr]

no overclocking, no beeps. just turns itself off :(
going to try taking out battery for bios and give update. in the mean time i have to share monitors between that pc and this one.

[Megageth]

Complete power failure could also be PSU, you got another to swap n test? Could be failing as the CPU demand for windows startup increases.

[SlipperyDuck]

I hate computers, so many possible causes.
You basically have to narrow everything down, by replacing all the parts.

If your motherboard doesnt have those SOLID capacitors, then it's likely the cause - the capacitors on the motherboard wear out giving your system strange and unexplainable behaviour. With the SOLID capacitor motherboards, they are spec'd WAY beyond what is electrically required and therefore have almost non-existant wear over time.

The Last point though, is possibly an interesting one.
SOFTWARE.

The Number 1 cause of problems with hardware, is the software that's running on 'em.
If you have a spare hard drive, load a fresh installation - without activating or anything, just to try it out.

Often a windows system re-install over current installation, leaves some Dodgy pieces of software that is still loaded and continues to cause problems.

I've had a system with similar problems of random reboots, the root cause of which I finally found after a few days of reinstalling patching and loading of software. The cause in that instance was a certain version of my sound driver could NOT be loaded before another version, the left over Cssxx.sys file caused a random bluescreen crash. After eventually figuring that out and bypassing the previous version install, the system was up and continued to work without a reboot or crash for several months.

So, like i said, I HATE COMPUTERS.
TOO MANY POSSIBLE Causes.

Here are some of my findings of common Crashes before Windows login screen (from software):
1. Non-RAID Boot Hard drive on any SATA interface (even different controller), with ANY RAID setup on the system (Vista x64 and Win7 x64)
2. Sound Card driver conflict with Windows WDM Sound card driver (XP and Vista, never seen it in Win7)
3. RealTek Network driver (certain versions, all Windows)
4. Virtual CD/DVD Emulation software (Especially if they use SPTD drivers [SCSI Pass Through Direct] - software that emulates hardware)
5. Certain printer drivers
6. Malware like Downad/Conficker, Trojan-PSW or Backdoor.Win32
7. many many many many more (ie: etc)

[Megageth]

Most hardware failures are accompanied by beeping. If the duck's theories are correct then it may be worthwhile trying to boot up Ubuntu off a CD/USB drive. That may save you swopping parts out on the hardware side.

[flycatchr]

i have already swopped PSU, GPU, HDDs, i have switched around and used less RAM modules,and the problem seems to be the same ALL the time. except now it days missing operating system if booting from RAID HDDs, but when trying to boot off DVD rom it ALWAYS turns off just after the bar across the load screen ends. i dont get ANY options to choose from, although i did get a optoin at one stage to go to last know good config but the pc turned off as that bar reached the right of the screen.

It did the same even with the raid HDDs sata cables disconected.

[flycatchr]

Lee - i dont understand how it could be a software issue if i am using an intall disk in DVD ROM drive with ALL hdds unplugged?? (and it does the same thing - turn off before any options available)

Geth - most times it sounds like the startup beeps from the mobo are normal, NO other hardware beeps. not even when it turns itself off.
it turns off JUST after the "windows is loading files" (from rom) IE JUST as you see the windows (c) and the small bar below it for loading the PC turns OFF. withoug fail.
also now if i try load from the HDDs it says missing operating system (might be bios issue) who knows /sigh

[SlipperyDuck]

hmm, seems to be switching off JUST as the GFX card is initialized - each time.
do you have a spare GFX card?

[SlipperyDuck]

busy downloading you the ultimate boot cd, will upload it here, so that your download is LOCAL and FAST

[SlipperyDuck]

As Promised, here is the Ultimate Boot CD .iso image.
You can burn the image with whatever DVD/CD Burning software you have (Nero, Roxio - whatever, theres a bunch of freeware tools out there too if you need them)


Ultimate Boot CD is a freeware/open source project, so no worries with pirate apps and what not here.

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD THE ubcd503.iso IMAGE (http://www.grrr.co.za/files/ubcd503.iso)




:merry:

[flycatchr]

thanks lee, finally i have made the disk - it asked for a CD-WR disk for some reason.

now to test it.

[flycatchr]

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG G

your disk worked untill i pressed a key - and then it did the same - turns OFF
i messed with APM and ACPI to no avail, still turns off at the press of a key.

[Megageth]

Sounding more and more like the motherboard.

[flycatchr]

mmmmmm, dont like the sound of that :(



thanks geth, i have found similar mobo online, 2nd hand, hope its still available

[Megageth]

To be on the safe side, might be better to take it in and have a techie test, but my $ would be on motherboard failure.

[flycatchr]

spot on Geth
i have another mobo and it works with the original CPU, now i am sitting on "startup repair" hoping that i will get the info on my raid HDDs.

if anyone has tips on resoting info from raid 0 i would appreciate the tips.

[flycatchr]

startup repair didnt work, but set raid up in bios and i am SORTED - what a relief, still got all my info - busy backing up :shadey: :shadey: :shadey: :shadey: :onyx: :onyx: :onyx: :ice: :ice: :smoke: :smoke:

[Megageth]

Sweet potatos!

[SlipperyDuck]

Motherboard was a real Lemon....Glad it all worked out

[flycatchr]

could it have been dry thermal paste on the chipset?

[SlipperyDuck]

more likely the capacitors - they be the 1st things to go on any electronic circuit

[Megageth]

Hard to say why the mobo was shutting down... If you can boot the old mobo and get into bios you should be able to watch the temperature of the chipset.

[flycatchr]

if you talking about system temp, then it was about 37C. but will look. i didnt see any caps that looked bad.

[Thor_23]

glad you got sorted fly.

just outa interest.
What mb did you buy?

[flycatchr]

almost the exact same one - xfx 8200 - my old one was the xfx 8300 (they look identical)