Nerds'advice needed

[s3xy_j0nny]

Got a friend looking to buy the following system:

http://www.chaosnet.co.za/product/sy-egs/

Is it good value for money? What would be a comparative system through Denis? ie Denis/Mega/Jarrod/Lee/murgs, what could you build/recommend for the same price?

Main reason for system upgrade is to play Starcraft 2, so system needs to handle that easily and cope for at least 3 years before future upgrades.

Bonus question: What is the best system build for gaming for under R20 000 you guys can recommend?

[Megageth]

That system is OK but graphics a little shoddy and I personally dont favour Intel Mobos.
Am sure Dennis could put together something better. 3yrs without upgrades is a long time in pc gaming... Better to think along the lines of getting a system that you would only need to upgrade CPU and/or Graphics on in about 18months.

[pmurgs]

Chaos Extreme Gamer Station... Extreme Gamer... :crackup: the text on the detailed specs page is even funnier. See http://www.chaosnet.co.za/images/uploaded_images/Chaos-Extreme-Gamer-Station.jpg no compromise (sssshhhh, dont mention the GTS 250) speed... :crackup:

The gfx card is rather weak in that package. Pretty weak if you ask me. You won't want a full hd screen to go with that, especially if you want it to last a while and play games.

Also that 920 chip is a great overclocker... but you want the right motherboard if you plan to go that route. Having the wrong motherboard will just ruin any chance of a decent overclock. Personally, I wouldnt go with an intel board (intel chipset is great though). I'd pick gigabyte first, then asus for a mainboard. But of course, what model is what is important.
Plus for overclocking you want real nice heatsink (assuming watercooling is out). Thermalright make the best pretty much, but there are other good cheaper makes as well.

Also... why two hard drives? A newer single 1Tb drive would be quite a bit quicker.

Overall at that price... I'd keep looking to see if I could get a better deal elsewhere.

[Megageth]

System would handle Starcraft 2.
System would not last 3 years. (Assuming you would want to play games released after Starcraft 2)
Nerds scoff at intel mobos.

Scoff scoff.

[J_Th4ng]

Denis could certainly build a better balanced system for the money. R13K can get a good gaming rig, not just an average one

As for a R20K system, you'd get a shit hot gaming rig for that cost. Think i7-930, decent mobo (Probably an ASUS ROG board - sorry Murgs, but they are good, and Gigabyte is very overpriced in SA thanks to Rectron), 6GB RAM, Radeon HD5870 or nVidia GTX470, big data HDD and an SSD for boot.

That's just a guestimate at this stage, Denis can do a proper quote for you.

[pmurgs]

As for a R20K system, you'd get a shit hot gaming rig for that cost. Think i7-930, decent mobo (Probably an ASUS ROG board - sorry Murgs, but they are good, and Gigabyte is very overpriced in SA thanks to Rectron), 6GB RAM, Radeon HD5870 or nVidia GTX470, big data HDD and an SSD for boot.


Asus make great boards. It's just Gigabyte has boards that are just slightly better than Asus when it comes to overclocking. I had to import my Gigabyte board as I couldn't get it here. But I would of had no issues going with an Asus ROG board either, if I couldnt get the Gigabyte one I wanted.

Jonny, if your friend would prefer not to spend at 20k, and save a little, then I'd go with a ATi 5850 (reference design only) or NVidia 460-1Gb if your friend doesn't mind overclocking. At resolutions lower than 1920x1080, a overclocked NVidia 460 will equal a 470 at stock, for a huge price difference. The 470's also are selling very poorly and rumours are they are end of life already. There are price cuts expected on the 470, so if you can get one for the same price as a ATi 5850, the 470 is a good option. The 470 just requires a lot of power and produces a lot of heat, compared to other cards.
Otherwise the ATi 5850 reference design boards can pretty much all be overclocked to the same performance of a 5870, which saves you about 1/3rd the cost of the 5870. Must be reference design 5850, as the non standard designs drop voltage mod support and thereby limit the possible overclock. Don't get a ATi 5830, they suck. They get close to 5850 performance in some games but fall far far short in others, plus the 5830 uses more power than the 5850.
If you friend doesn't want to try overclock, then pretty much, the more he spends on a better graphics card, the better it will perform. The cards available in the NVidia 4XX series and ATi 5XXX series are pretty much priced well, compared to each other by what performance you get from them.
Personally I'd say screw getting a SSD and spend the extra money on a better graphics card or bigger lcd screen and maybe add a second hard drive to raid them. SSD's to me are a luxury item for those with cash to burn.

[Skouperd]

Where to start:

1. The 920 CPU is an old CPU, and no longer available, so this is already an old system.
2. The graphics card is a good solid card, but it ain't a gamer's card. It is fine for moderate gaming (i.e. older type games), but not serious gaming
3. Building a system for 3 years you need to think what the pc will be used for, I can easily built a system that will last you 5 years, if you are only ever going to be doing emails and excel on it. If you want to play the latest games, then 3 years is a long push.
4. If somebody intends to stay current for 3 years, then I would not go with an Intel Smackover motherboard, there are better options.
5. The two HDD's makes sense, they will be using the 250GB for the OS drive, and the 500GB for the data drive. However, a better option especially sicne that motherboard support matrix-raid, would be to get two 500GB drives, raid0 the first 30 GB of each drive for the OS drive, and then leave the remaining space as two seperate drives. That way, yuo'll get the speed boost for the OS, and about 900GB of usable space for the data drive while increasing the cost with less than R100. (the price difference between 250GB and 500GB)

Overall, I would not be going with this system, too many things that is flawed.

As for graphics cards, either the 5850, 5870 is the options. Alternatively, and I know a lot of people don't like it, but don't overlook the 5770 for nice budget card as well. Jono, if your friend intends to splash R20k then just provide more details, for instance:
1. What is the main purpose of the machine, playing games, and if games, what kind of games
2. What size monitor does he want.
3. What else will he be doing on the pc
4. How much space does he have for his setup. (desk space, floor space etc)
5. Does he need an OS, or does he have one already
5. What kind of hard drive space does he need.
6. Why does he want to buy a new computer, i.e. what is his old computer's problem?
7. How fast does he type?
8. What size is his hands
9. What is his views on upgrades
10. How tech savvy is he
11. Does he need a keyabord / mouse screen / printer / mousepad / headset, or is R20k just the box?
12. How much does he enjoy high end sound quality

Based on the above info, only then can we really built a good system fit for him.

[s3xy_j0nny]

Hi all, thanks for te responses so far. Updates to the previous info:

Main use of the machine will be gaming, mostly rpg and rts - he's not much of an fps fan, so graphics and processor dont need to be tip top in that respect. Eye candy, however, is a big feature in rpg and rts, so graphics would need to be good.
He already has the same 24" Samsung monitor that I have, so would be running aspect ratio of 1920 x 1080.
He has plenty of space in his gaming room - large desk etc and floorspace, plus his modem sits right next to his desk.
I think he would need to upgrade from Windows Vista to Win7 64bit.
HD space would be purely for storing some series and movies, so well under 1TB total.
His current pc is one Mega built for him about 4 years ago, so it's not up to par for current games.
He has all other bits of hardware he needs incl screen, keyboard, mouse, speakers, mic etc.
He is not even as tech savvy as I am, so not an IT boff by any means.

His reasoning for considering a store-bought system centres around warranty and after sales service. His concerns with going the route of "getting j0nny's nerd buddies to do it" are that if something goes wrong, he can't just take it to the shop under warranty and say "Fix it!" if you get what I'm saying.

Also, the R15-R20k is purely for the box (and contents, obviously). Naturally, a kick-ass rig for closer to R15k would be better than the R20k end.

So basically, he wants a machine that can run games like Starcraft 2 well and which won't be redundant in 12-18 months' time. I hear what you guys are saying about 3 years being a long life for a gaming pc to have to cope with, hence, a rig that will require maybe one or two components to be upgraded in 18-24 months' time would be fine. Ideally the system should be ultra stable so that nothing is likely to go wrong, as he is not much of a tech nerd and would require dial-a-nerd services for any malfunctions.

Denis, the guy who needs the rig is Paul - you came to dinner at his place in Durbanville during the World Cup, so if you'd prefer to speak to him direct, I can email you his cell number and email.

Thanks all

Jono

[Skouperd]

I figured about half way through the post that it was him. So that's cool I'll get the brain beans working and compile a quote for you.

With regard to service, yes, you are absolutely right in that a custom built (friend of Jono) can not provide the same kind of 24/7 service as what your stock pc's retailers can offer. Saying that, realistically, if you do a proper stress test during the build, you should not have future issues with it. I have also seen the so called "professionals" build computers and I can fully understand why some of them need specialised after-sales service centres. I will invite anybody to compare a pc build by "Sahara" and compare that with one build by any gaming enthuisast.

With regard to building machines for 3 or 4 years, it is definately possible now-a-days. I bought my CPU (the one in my main gaming system) in April 2007, so that is well over 3 years old now and I am still able to kick most stock machines butts with it. I unfortunately had to upgrade my graphics card recently (went with a 5970) due to the NVidia driver blowing up one of 8800GTX cards that was in SLI. If it was not for that driver issue, I would have been running with graphics cards that is also more than 3 years old. So definately a possibility.

Anyevent, I can guarantee you a kick-ass gaming system on that kind of budget. Just let me think a little bit and I'll forward you the quotes. I'll put the final quotes / recommendations up here as well so that the other guys can comment / rip it apart as well.

[s3xy_j0nny]

Shweet, Denis and all - shot a lot.

[NiteShade]

8. What size is his hands



I'm still waiting for the above answer!! ;)

[SoSheOhPathix]

You can save A LOT of money by sourcing it through private means.
I bought a system for R 27 000. Had I been capable/willing to source the parts and build it myself, I could have saved myself about R 7 000-ish (and pissed it away on other shit I didn't need, instead).
All retail outlets and such have big overheads they need to cover, so they have to load prices, to turn profits.
At the end of the day, all business is in it for the money.

That said, if you can afford it, there is some peace of mind in knowing if something goes wrong, you take it back to the supplier, and tell them to fix it under the warrantee. Hasn't happened yet, but I seldom use my PC any more.

[Skouperd]

Jono, finnaly I've got some options for you.

I've got two options for you, basically the one uses an ATI card, the other an NVidia card, and the one exclude an SSD drive. I appreciate you said he is not in the mood to overclock, but I've included watercooling for both options and if he is prepared for it, I'll overclock it for him and still guarantee all the equipment as if it is brand new. IF he really doesn't feel like overclocking, then he could drop the H50 watercooling (costing R700). The CPU is quick enough that he doesn't really need overclocking.


Here goes:
Option 1 cost = R20,700
CPU: i7-950
MOBO: ASUS Rampage 3 Gene - Republic of Gamers - with USB3.0+SATA 6Gb/s
GPU: Asus ENGTX470/2DI/1280MD5
SSD: Kingston SNV425-S2/128GB SSD , MLC , 2.5" 128Gb , SATA2 , read : 200mb/sec / write 160mb/sec
HDD: Western Digital caviar Green WD15EARS 1500gb/1.5Tb, Sata3G
PSU: Corsair HX750
CASE: Coolermaster RC-690-KKN1 , CM690 black
RAM: 3 x 2GB kit - ddr3-1600 ( PC3-12800 ) , CL8
H2O: Corsair H50-1
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit
DVD: Samsung SH-S243D


Option 2 cost = R17,700
CPU: i7-950
MOBO: ASUS Rampage 3 Gene - Republic of Gamers - with USB3.0+SATA 6Gb/s
GPU: Sapphire HD5870 Game edition
SSD: NONE
HDD: Western Digital caviar Green WD15EARS 1500gb/1.5Tb, Sata3G
PSU: Corsair HX750
CASE: Coolermaster RC-690-KKN1 , CM690 black
RAM: 3 x 2GB kit - ddr3-1600 ( PC3-12800 ) , CL8
H2O: Corsair H50-1
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit
DVD: Samsung SH-S243D


I'll await comments from the rest of the guys on which one they'll prefer. IN the menatime, I've send you a personal mail containing more detail as well.

[Megageth]

http://www.overclock.net/nvidia/715548-ati-radeon-hd-5870-vs-nvidia.html

Both are good rigs and we could argue all day about whats the best rig or bang/buck.
... What I will say is that if I were building a rig today I would consider the x6 AMD cpu's. As more games are becoming multi-threaded, the cheaper AMD 6 cores become more appealing vs Intel, who are probably more powerful core for core but more expensive too.

I see the Mobo handles cross-fire and SLi so no problems going with either card.

[Skouperd]

I've build a Hexa-core pc not too long ago for a friend, and I can confirm, that PC is really rocking along nicely. However, the clock speed (overclocking) on the i7's make them better suited for those single threaded apps still making the round, while hyperthreading enables the ability for the more multithreaded apps to get along. Either way, the AMD hexa core is a very cool CPU for the price and if I am out for a budget build, then I would agree with you 100% that the AMD-Hexa is a very worhtwhile consideration. However, at this price points, the AMD is slightly out of it's league.

Nice link on the graphics cards. Also, the nice thing about the 470, if ever he want to upgrade graphcis, then the 470 scales better in SLI than what two 5870's will do in crossfire. At the end of the day, they are both well balanced cards.

But I agree, one could argue endlessly on which one of the two are the best, if I was given the option between the two, I honestly would not know which one to pick. The real difference really comes in with an SSD or without it. I like the speed of the SSD, but they still go for a premium right now.

Anyevent, thanks for the heads up.

[s3xy_j0nny]

awesome, Denis, I will forward the info and get back to you asap.