The UFO Discussion

[Megageth]

They recently closed an airport in China due to a UFO, I spent some time looking through vids on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ufo+china+july&aq=f

Who here believes that these vids are authentic or has seen a UFO?

Please lets distinguish between 'Unidentified Flying Object' (Could be anything) and 'Alien' (Paul).

[flycatchr]

IMO - the only proof of inteligent life out there is that we HAVENT been contacted.


time lapse photography, natural and human phenomenon, most of the stuff can be explained away very easily.
what interested really interested me, MANY moons ago i read a UFO book, that claimed to have done some research and found that over 90% (or some such high number) of the interviewees (sightings, abductions etc) had had some deeling with the occult.

and at what point do we confuse 4, 5 or 6th dimension stuff with UFO's?
we have NO idea how and how much the spiritual world interacts with the real world. (spiritual/extraterestrial/angel/demon/alien)
even those that think they know about "casting out" and demons dont know HALF of whats going on.
(and i certainly dont pretend to know anything :) )

[Megageth]

and at what point do we confuse 4, 5 or 6th dimension stuff with UFO's?


At the point where you come in.

7 views on this thread and the one comment that launches into demons.
Dry pickings.

[flycatchr]

I just remembered I have a photo I took in June this year - you tell me :)

[Megageth]

Nice cloud.

[flycatchr]

and at what point do we confuse 4, 5 or 6th dimension stuff with UFO's?


At the point where you come in.

7 views on this thread and the one comment that launches into demons.
Dry pickings.




LOL Geth, i am also asking the questions and asking people to think. I am not saying that people HAVE to believe whatever it is you THINK i believe. (if that is of course where you are coming from )
to rephrase my point - there is so much we dont know about the other dimensions that to exclude one from the other might be short sighted. :)

[s3xy_j0nny]

The truth is out there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDZBgHBHQT8

http://sciencefictionwallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/x-files-800x600.jpg

http://omega.enstb.org/yannis/cours/s31/i-want-to-believe.jpg

[pmurgs]

and at what point do we confuse 4, 5 or 6th dimension stuff with UFO's?


At the point where you come in.

7 views on this thread and the one comment that launches into demons.
Dry pickings.


I'd have to say, I'm with Fly on this. The parrallels between the "aliens" people claim to have come into contact with and demons are quite striking, if you take the time to read some of the "ufo" abuction/encounter studies.

As for the chinesse airport being closed, I read that the chinesse government have said it was an experimental military craft which caused the ruckus. Of course, who knows if they are telling the truth or not.

[Megageth]

I dont know what reports you have read Murgs, do you have links?
I also dont know what either you nor Fly define as demons nor why you both believe that they are linked to reported ufo sightings.

I believe that demons were created to give a face to unknown fears much as dragon stories were created to give a face to dinosaur bones.
If you are scared of the unknown then you will face demons.

Alright Fly, I am going to bite, what do mean by 4th, 5th and 6th dimension stuff?
Time being what I accept as the 4th, more specifically what do mean by 5th and 6th?

PS I was trying to keep this on topic but I am already drawn into debates on definitions.

[L3pr3c4un]

All I have to say on this topic is(same with ghosts):
I dont accept or deny the exsistence of this, but until I meet either an alien or ghost face to face I'll have to say that I'm a non believer..

[SlipperyDuck]

What do they call THEIR space cookies?

[pmurgs]

I dont know what reports you have read Murgs, do you have links?
I also dont know what either you nor Fly define as demons nor why you both believe that they are linked to reported ufo sightings.

I believe that demons were created to give a face to unknown fears much as dragon stories were created to give a face to dinosaur bones.
If you are scared of the unknown then you will face demons.

Alright Fly, I am going to bite, what do mean by 4th, 5th and 6th dimension stuff?
Time being what I accept as the 4th, more specifically what do mean by 5th and 6th?

PS I was trying to keep this on topic but I am already drawn into debates on definitions.


I don't have any online links. I have a couple books and a dvd I purchased on the topic. Perphaps I can lend them to you sometime.

By demons, I mean beings that are inteligent, able to visit this world of ours and interact with us in some form and remove themselves again. But also they are what the Bible describes as demons, being evil beings that are not interested in our good at all and delight in deceiving us and causing us suffering. Basically, beings that exist outside of our mind and are able to interact with us on the physical plain. These "encounter" stories seem to all have in common that the "beings" dont seem to care if they cause us distress/suffering or not, and that the beings regularly lie. The beings also seem to not be bound by the laws of the physical plain we reside on, like we are.

I personally think demons are real, even though I've never encountered one. There seem to be more than enough creddible people who have "encounters" for me to just dismiss them out of hand, just because I haven't seen them. I have never been to Japan, but I believe it exists based on what I've heard.

Leelo... cookies... space cookies... hmm, would be very tempting to want to try one... hmmm... space cookies... *drool*...

[SlipperyDuck]

oooo esoteric stuff:

IF LIFE WAS A PIECE OF STRING, I'D BE KNOTTED!

[SoSheOhPathix]

Why on earth (maybe not such a good choice of terms) would 'aliens' come here?
What do we have to offer them? If they can travel accross the universe to visit this planet, they are significantly more developed than we are, so I'm pretty sure it won't be to come say 'howzit' to the humans. It would more likley be for natural resources they need.
If that is the case, I don't think they're going to be terribly friendly.

Let's face it... when did you last discuss with the ants in your garden the beneifits of you digging up their home, to plant something?

Personally, I think that to believe that humans are the only intelligent life form to have evolved in an infinite universe, is going way beyond arrogance. So few planets match ours... who's to say that all intelligent life has to conform to what we understand of biology? Different planets composed of new elements may have different rules of physics and biochemistry. There may even be inorganic life out there for all we know.

These 'ghosts', 'demons', and whatnot, cleverly labelled as 'the unexplained' are really just that... Why do these 'religious experiences' always seem to happen in a backwater dorp in the middle of nowhere, where no one knows what a camera is, never mind actually own one? Surely if God, being all super-duper intelligent, omnipotent, omniscient, and just plain omn, wanted us to know he is really here, and do public performances, he'd have enough smarts to appear to someone that doesn't have gators for concubines, but rather someone that has a reasonable command of the spoken language, and maybe has a camera?
(Tip for God: If you want to impress people, go back to the old 'turn water to wine' trick. That was a real show-stopper!)

Interestingly enough, there were recently a bunch of documentaries on DSTV, where a number of governments (including the UK, Israel, Australia, Russia and the US) released intel and footage of 'UFOs' their pilots, air traffic controllers and whoever have encountered.
Now, when I am somewhat disinclined to believe some halfwit shepherd, who claims to have done the dirty with the virgin Mary in a dingy cave somewhere in the Himalayas, the verbal account of a highly trained, intelligent professional fighter pilot who made visual contact with- and tracked a UFO before it left him eating dust/plasma/Trilithium, I will believe. Also, if nothing actually happened, why did they cover it up for so long?

[AuRoRa]

:hmmm:

Nice topic here, interresting possibilities and views that can be made and discussed with this one..

I have always said, that God (some does not believe their is a God, and that fine, as that is your personal opinion) would not have made the Universe infinity X1000 000x 1000 000 and so on big to only create 1 living planet with "beings". If you beleive in the more scientific version, same applies - if the big bang happend, and everything was created, why would only 1 planet out of the gazillions of planets and the billions of galaxies have the possibility to create/sustain life?

We might not comprehend how big the possibilities are for other live forms, not saying that the would be intelligent, or even in any shape, size or form we expect, but surely, somewhere, out their would be some sort of living thing exept for us.

As for contact with living "beings" - I heard proffessor Hawkings say "I would not like it when we make contact with other living beings, as that time could mean the end for all of humanity. If we put all our information out into the Universe, and other intelligent beings have heard it, and somehow understood it, why would they be interrested in meeting us? we have then already told them everything abouth ourselves"

I kinda agree with what he says - Why would they want to meet and share with us? especially if the are already so advanced that they can travel through space? what would they want from us?

not to sure what is really going on, if goverments have already found the evidence, and are hiding it because they might loose control over their heards, due to panic, irrational thinking and so on, or if they simply do not want to share what they have found? or even that they have not found anything..

we will know the day the touble comes, or the day we see a huge flying thig all of a sudden, or when they perhaps can't hide it no more.

[SoSheOhPathix]

That's not Geth!
Geth can write in English, complete with correct grammar, spelling and even punctuation.

It's a pod person! :eek:

They are here. Can you feel them?

[pmurgs]

In response to SoSheOhPathix

First you are attibuting to the supposed "aliens" that they have similar desires/goals to us, such are acquiring resources. What if these are not really concerns of theirs, since from the encounter experiances that you can read about, these aliens seem to be able to come and go at will, with not many contraints over how they do it. They appear and vanish again, evading our ability to track them. If they are demons with the motivations normally attributed to demons (basically they like being bastards), that could be a reason enough for them to come "mess" with us.

Regarding this being an infinite universe, well, there is no way to know that, even if it is true. So if you cant know for sure, then the possibility that it's not infinite needs to also be considered. Then the idea that only life as we know it exists on earth, becomes much more reasonable a possibility. So to assume its arrogant for someone to believe this view, is really just your personal choice to feel affronted by such a person.

Regarding all these unexpained phenomena happening in backwater dorps... well, the topic Geth posted is about an event that took place over large city in China and footage of it is available all over the web. One major such phenomena that comes to mind from a few years ago was over Mexico city. The evening television in Mexico was transmitting it live to the country as it happened since they whole city could see it.

Tip for you from God... water into wine aint so great... making a huge universe with a planet populated by human beings and other life forms is much more impressive.

[SoSheOhPathix]

Tip for you from God... water into wine aint so great... making a huge universe with a planet populated by human beings and other life forms is much more impressive.


Yeah, and what was particularly awesome about that was that, despite evolution being an evil, heretic viewpoint that'll get you banished to the fiery pits of hell for all eternity, he cunningly placed all these weird dinosaur fossils in the earth during the construction phase, so we'd have something to argue over.
Maybe he put them there to comfort we atheists, who find solace in believing that we evolved from apes, rather than a handful of mud in God's celestial sand-box?

Water into wine was magnificent! Epic party trick of note! From that came beer, brandy, Space Vodka, and all other distilled/infused drinks.

Has China, or Mexico openly stated that... "Nope. We have no fucking idea what that was. We just decided not to shoot at something invading our air space this one time, coz it clearly wasn't American, in that it wasn't dropping bombs on Muslims."
No. No official statements at all. The chogies are currently developing all sorts of sweet military equipment (e.g. super-sonic torpedos), so why couldn't that have been a field test of some sort?

Generally speaking, when people experience something they can't rationalise and understand, they will attribute it to superstition/religion (okay, that really is a sub-section of superstition)/aliens.
The universe gets bigger all the time. It wasn't long ago that the all-knowing church dictated that the earth was the centre of the universe (and flat, to boot), and that everything revolved around them it. Failure to conform to that belief would get your progress to the afore-mentioned fiery pits of hell accelerated through the judiciously applied lobbing of rocks onto your pip, publicly. But only if they couldn't build a big enough fire.
Now we know that the Crab Nebula (for example), isn't just out of reach beyond the giant ball of cheese we today erroneously call a moon and believe to be made of rock, of all things.... ludicrous, I know...

Science is like that. It is progressive. As we discover new things, we develop new theories to try explain them. Proving those theories opens new avenues of thought, so the cycle is... well, cyclic, rather than stagnant, like a religion.

Of course I attribute human wants and needs to 'aliens'. It's all I know. That's kinda how theories work. I could rant and rave about them needing new ooblygooblium for their Fantastical-drive engines, as read in a geek magazine, but I have to assume that they didn't evolve (ooops, sorry, get created) as advanced as they are, and actually developed their technology (much like we are doing) through milleniums of scientific research (or public stonings/burnings, and reverting to an acient text written thousands of years ago by an illiterate fisherman and his drinking buddies (see how important water-to-wine is now?)). Not being totally conversant in alien technology and religion, I must assume that resources are required to develop that technology, and that, even on their planet, resources are limited.
Hence their need to make enormous galactic space craft, and cruise about looking for new colonies/resources... use it, don't use it. Just a thought.
Perhaps, in a best case scenario, they come here on prospector missions, see us, and go "Eeeew. Humans! Fucking things get in everywhere! They're worse than cockroaches", then, due to their being superior and reluctant to obliterate our species, decide to move on, rather than make contact and get into the inevitible war that we will start (it is, after all, what we do best).
Maybe our small, furry rodents don't taste as good as we were led to believe by the producers of 'V'...

PS: I do not feel affronted by people believing their super-ghost created all these billions of planets from... errr... nothing? but only populating this one with the most dysfunctional, belicose species he could possibly think up. I really don't care what they think or feel. However, if this is the only populated planet, and the Chinks/Mexicans did have a 'UFO' incident, where did they come from?
Has God got another colony going on the sly somewhere, and just didn't mention it to us? Or does every planet get it's own God?
Can we get a new one, please? Ours has gone AWOL.

[Megageth]

I have seen 2 UFO's. And by "UFO's", I am using the term literally. They were flying objects that I have been unable to explain. Whether they were aliens, natural phenomenon or human advanced tech is entirely speculative. I have also seen ball lightening and the sun turn green. These are things you have to see to believe though and in the case of the UFO's I am not sure what to believe I have seen. I doubt it was demons though I could change my mind if an anal transmitter plops out with my next poop.

[AuRoRa]

Tip for you from God... water into wine aint so great... making a huge universe with a planet populated by human beings and other life forms is much more impressive.


Yeah, and what was particularly awesome about that was that, despite evolution being an evil, heretic viewpoint that'll get you banished to the fiery pits of hell for all eternity, he cunningly placed all these weird dinosaur fossils in the earth during the construction phase, so we'd have something to argue over.



Well put Jules, logical and reasonable thinking would suggest the same, however, no-one said that relegion was accurate on the age of the earth... In the Bible , God even references that the earth was dark and violent with beast raoming and ruling..

I dont want to get into a fight with you, your view point is very reasonable, and I believe "live and let live", "meaning everyone can have their own opinions and believes"

I think we both agree that it is pointless (either way (BANG, or Creation)) if only us humans existed in this very very vast universe.

I have seen something resembling a UFO (the unexplained type) before. We were on 1 of our amteur rocketry trips at "Verneekpan"
(that very big salt pan were guys usually try to break the land speed records). The night we were having a braai, enjoying the most spectacular view of the stars you have ever seen, since the closest town to you is 300km, so with the lack of light, and this emense and vast open plain of nothingness, we noticed this rotating white light, not close to to surface, i'd recon about 30-35 000 feet up, moving in a spiral shape. it did that for about 1 hour, and then left, with a very fast pace, like shooting star fast..

It could have been anything, but it was weird enough to see..

[Stu]

Interesting, I do believe that there is indeed intelligent life in the universe its a matter of numbers. Stars vs planets etc. in terms of the video that is a made rocket, it is a trajectory and you can see the sonic boom or the rocket detachment I personally think it was a sonic boom.

[baselineac]

interresting read....and no!!!! i am not allowed to respond.....by order THE GALACTIC COMMAND...