Upgrade time - suggestions?

[J_Th4ng]

I posted this on SGS, but would also like some input from the IT boffins here:

And so it happens again...

About a month before I do my main system upgrade (overdue now, it's been over three years since I got my E6600), new product launches muddy the water.

My original plan was to get an i7 920, 6GB DDR-3 and an X58.

Now the i7 860 and 870 arrive (along with the i5 750). According to Anand's review (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3634&p=1) the new Lynnfield CPU's are pretty impressive.

With the 860 and the 920 CPU's coming in at a very similar price, I could save some cash on the mobo, as well as the RAM (4GB instead of 2GB).

I'm not running SLI or Crossfire, so the onboard PCI-E controller shouldn't give me any problems.

This is a tough decision for once. Since launch I've felt that Socket 1366 was the way to go, I figured that the 1156 was going to be a cut down part. But it doesn't seem like this is the case, and the performance numbers are very good.

What do you lot think? Where would you be putting your money? Bearing in mind that budget isn't really a constraint for this upgrade, as long as the money is well spent (i.e. I wouldn't buy a 975 or even an 870, as the performance gain for the price is not worth it).

As for the rest of the stuff that I'm going to buy, it stands as follows:

1xIntel MLC SSD (G2) 80GB
1xIndilinx 128GB SSD (probably a Vertex)
2x1GB Data drives (dunno what make yet)

For the moment, I'm gonna stick with my existing graphics (I have a 4870x2). I'll be building it into my HAF-932, and CPU cooling will be handled by my Aquagate MAX (although I will need to get a new CPU block of course).

I'll be buying and installing Win7 as part of the build.

So guys, what should it be? a 920 & X58, or a 860 & P55?

[Paul]

Dude I am clueless at this point about CPU and which architecture is best but I have not heard good things about the Solid State Drive. All the PC magazine’s (OK PC Format and NAG) have not had good reviews. It is kind of a case where they haven’t got it quite right yet and you should wait. They don’t seem very stable , so they might be very fast but you could lose everything.

That’s my 2c, Lee and Mega will have the best advice though

[SlipperyDuck]

I'm going to be a little controversial here.

I think when Intel reached Core2Quad, the performance for a gaming/multipurpose rig pretty much reached critical mass; coupled with the rather stagger slump in performance increases from the GFX sector and the absolutely negligible performance increase from DDR2 to DDR3 etc etc. I’ve come to the conclusion that an upgrade at this stage is useless until the next major breakthrough.

Mmm, the i7 i5 are nice, but worth the cost? I personally don’t think so. The Actual RL performance improvement is almost non-existent when comparing to a Core2Quad, I couldn’t care less that you can encode an mp3 in 60 seconds as apposed to 74, my Photoshop and Gaming still have the exact same response and feel between the two systems.
The only way I can see value in an upgrade in today’s market IS with SSD, having said that, getting a drive without TRIM is madness IMHO.
For those who don’t know, when you buy an SSD drive and it’s blank it works helva fast, as it fills up using a modern Filesystem like FAT32 and NTFS, you delete files and uninstall and move things around etc etc. The modern Filesystem finds new unused area’s of the disc first, this works great on Spindle Hard drives, but on SSD’s it creates a problem, especially with clusters and file fragments, leaving file fragments located across loads of different chips and accessing Data becomes a nightmare for the controller on the drive, leaving 1’s and 0’s where there should be blank spots, once the drive then needs to make use of that area, it actually needs to perform a format-type operation on each cluster before it writes data there again, again more nightmares for the controller.
I could go into the long explanation, but I’d rather not bore you with the details, suffice to say that, after some use, the drive performance suffers a permanent degradation after it’s first use. That brings us to TRIM, this is a feature that prevents the degradation, but requires the OS to be aware of the feature too. Currently only Windows 7 has this feature ready when it’s released, so TRIM is only viable if you upgrade to Win7.
So to conclude, if it was my cash to splurge, I’d still wait. If you’re getting good performance out of your current Rig, why change it at least wait until/if you upgrade to Win7.

[J_Th4ng]

TBH Greg, I wouldn't touch one of those drives. That drive uses a Samsung controller chip, and they are no where near comparible to the Indilinx or Intel controllers.

If you're interested in the technology, there is a superb article at Anand http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631 detailing changes in the technology, new vs used performance, TRIM, and a lot of other stuff.

Paul, I think that SSD's are very much a viable option at this stage. Besides which, I wouldn't use one for the storage of any important data. That's what the 2 1TB drives are for, and those will be setup in RAID 1 in case of a failure...

The SSD's will be used only for my OS, apps, and games.

[J_Th4ng]

Double post FTW!

Thanks for the input, Lee. I agree that the performance gains of i7 over the high end C2Q CPU's are not spectacular. However, if you look at the pricing, the new i7 and i5 CPU's can be obtained at cheaper price than the high end C2Q's, and give better performance. Combine this with the considerably cheaper price of the P55 mobo's over the X58's, an i7 system is now more sensible than going high end C2Q for the first time.

Anyway, what I'll take from your post is that it would make more sense to go with the 860/P55 than the 920/X58. It'll be cheaper, and the performance should be as good, if not better. The only drawback is that the future high end CPU's will be Socket 1366, so if I want to go that route in the future, I'll have to get a new mobo with it.

My system was built in the first months after the Core2 architecture was released. The CPU is an E6600, which is okay, but my mobo is an old 975 chipset. Wherever I go to from here, I need a decent mobo upgrade.

As for the SSD/TRIM thing, as mentioned in my original post, I will be getting Win7 as part of the upgrade. This is due in no small part to TRIM. :D

[Megageth]

I cant give too much advice because IMO the latest quad cores dont really have much over each other in gaming. I would just make sure that you can run it/oc it comfortably over the 3ghz mark. Not having the opportunity to test any of the latest cpus from either AMD or Intel you would better off reading reviews online that listening to me.

I would be interested in your experiences with SSD's, cos I plan to go SSD + Win7 in October when I return as well.

[J_Th4ng]

No probs, Mr Mega, you're welcome to pop around and check my new beast in action once it's built.

Did you read that Anand article (linked above)? Really gives a good explanation and comparison of where SSD technology is at the moment.

[Megageth]

Ok, read all 27 pages of the brain-jarring nerd speak on SSD's. Awesome article. I get the points on the advantages of Intel over Samsung but was intrigued by Samsungs strong showing in the pratical tests...

Win 7 out in about a weeks time. Will check then what to get. At the mo, I am thinkin of a 128-160GB SSD for Win + Games then a 1TB Seagate for Aps + Piracy and a copy of Win 7 Home Premium.

[J_Th4ng]

Well, it's finally done. After a couple of months of reading reviews, doing comparisons, and trying to figure out what is the best stuff to get, I've finally placed my order. Unfortunately a couple of items are out of stock, so it's gonna be a couple of weeks before I can complete my build. But what an awesome build it's gonna be...

Bits that I'm keeping from my current rig:

Coolermaster HAF-932 Case
Aguagate MAX Watercooling system
Thermaltake Purepower 650W PSU
Sapphire ATi Radeon 4870x2
Soundblaster X-Fi platinum
Samsung T260

New stuff ordered today:

ASUS Rampage II Extreme Motherboard (socket 1366)
Intel i7 920 CPU (D0 stepping, should clock to 4.0GHz)
Zalman CPU Waterblock with mounting for i7
3x2GB Corsair Dominator DDR-3 1600
Intel X-25 SSD - 80GB (Version G2) - For my OS and office apps)
Intel X-25 SSD - 160GB (Version G2) - For games
2xSeagate 1.5 TB 7200RPM HDD for data storage
LG DVD-RW (SATA Interface)

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit

Can't wait to get my hands on all of this :D

[flycatchr]

really nice drag :yikes:

[Megageth]

Sweet!
- Where are you getting the SSD's from and how much? I want 1 x 160GB G2.

Mega's Shopping List:
Intel 160GB G2 SSD
Seagate 1TB HDD
New Asus Mobo click (http://www.prophecy.co.za/asus-maximus-formula-republic-gamers-extra-feature-epu6-p-29436.html)
Win 7 Home Premium

Anyone with deals/connections pls let me know prices cos I will buy online otherwise in a few days.

[J_Th4ng]

My bits all come from Frontosa, so prices are pretty good.

Okay some prices for you. I don't have a full pice list with me, so all I can give you is from options that I was considering:

Intel 160GB G2 SSD - R4477
Intel 80GB G2 SSD - R2020
Seagate 1TB HDD - R669 - seagate barracuda 7200.12 st31000528as , 1TB/1000gb, s-ata2 , 7200rpm, 32mb cache, 8.5ms - 3 years warrenty
Seagate 1.5TB HDD - R987 seagate barracuda 7200.11 st31500341as , 1.5TB/1500gb, s-ata2 , 7200rpm, 32mb cache, 8.5ms - 3 years warrenty
ASUS Maximum II Formula - Will check price list on Monday and let you know
Win 7 Home Premium - R879 - Microsoft DSP windows 7 Home Premium 64bit

All of these pices are from the dealer listing, and are thus ex-VAT.

Let me know if there is any other stuf you want pricing on...

[Megageth]

Shot. If you can get a quote on the mobo that would be awesome as well, pls just confirm specs (Socket, RAM, XFi card etc).
If they dont have it I will order the other bits through you, works out a couple a hundred bucks cheaper.
Thanks.

[J_Th4ng]

Okay, from Frontosa pricelist:

ASUS Maximus II Formula - Republic of Gamers
extra feature : EPU-6, external debug LED poster, voltiminder LED (cpu/mem/nb/sb voltage warning led), on-board on/off/clear CMOS switch, fanless heatpipe design. ATi crossfireX ready, intel Quad-core/Core2/Core2-Extreme/p4/Pentium D; intel P45 + iCH10R chipset, 1600/1333/1066/800 fsb ,4x dual channel 2-phase DDR2 1200 (upto 3.4v, support XMP) up to 16Gb, 9x s-ata2 with raid 0/1/5/0+1/10 (8x internal + 1x external -sata ), 1x parallel ata133, on-board SupremeFX X-Fi creative X-Fi xtreme fidelity Dobly Digital live 7.1 audio with coaxial+optical S/Pdif out + dual gigabit lan + ieee1394a; 2x pci , 3x pci-e(1x) , 2x pci-e 2.0 16x (8x+8x) - bundled with 2 x asus add-on fan + 3d game STALKER , 1x PS2 only for kb - atx

Price (ex-VAT): R1999

[Megageth]

Sweet! Thats the sucker!
Dude can you pls then order:
1 x That Mobo^
1 X 160GB Intel SSD G2
1 x Seagate 1TB HDD
1 x Win 7 Home Premium

If you PM me account details + price with Tax I will transfer the $.
(I get R9147.36 but pls confirm)

[SlipperyDuck]

Wow, just seen this special:

iKonic IT upgrade special
http://www.ikonicit.co.za/index.php?target=products&product_id=3972

I thought THIS was pretty impressive:

1 X ASUS Rampage 2 Gene - Republic of Gamers Mobo
1 X PALIT GTX260 GeForce® GTX 260 Sonic 216 SP (896MB)
1 X OCZ PC3-12800 DDR3 6GB
1 X Domino A.L.C. (Advanced Liquid Cooling for CPU's with LCD Temperature Display)
1 X OCZ Fatal1ty 550W Modular Power Supply
1 X Intel Ci7 Processor i7 920

R10 000.00

Save like over R3000 and get an uber setup!

[J_Th4ng]

That's a pretty good deal that.